Dirge and Troubador Bots are inefficient DPS... :(

[mig4one]

I've been rolling with Dudster's profiles on my troubador and dirge and they parse alright, but not where i want them to be.

Dirge: 350 (raid) & 450k (Dummy)... 187 and 196 gear

Troub: 200-275k (Raid) & 325k (Dummy)... 187 and 196 gear

Honeslty, i would like it if i could get both to do a constant 400k each, but i dont know how to build their profiles. I try messing with them and putting the CAs in an order based on Recast > Min/Max DMG > CstSpd and this works for every other class profile I do EXCEPT the Dirge and Troub. I'm busting my brain trying to figure them out, but they seem impossible. Can anyone enlighten me on how to work the troub/dirge profiles or allow me to use your profiles to test?

With the gear my toons have they should easily hit my goal, but they just dont seem to be want to DPS hahaha.

 

[tarbasch]

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Just curious as to what kind of DPS you do when you play them manually? I only ask because from my experience both Dirge and Trouble are support classes not DPS classes so I've never seen them be consistently that high on the meter, but mine aren't as geard as your either.

 

[mig4one]

There is a problem I noticed in the bot though; for the Dirge and Troubadour their CA casting order is constantly conflicting with the Auto Attack Timer and as a result they will stop casting in order to wait. I've tried dropping all spells and only using CA with a .35 casting time, but yet they still continue not to cast. I'm not sure what's going on with these two classes, because every other class I use works very well. I'm hoping Kannkor reads this post and looks into this problem.

 

[Kannkor]

There is a problem I noticed in the bot though; for the Dirge and Troubadour their CA casting order is constantly conflicting with the Auto Attack Timer and as a result they will stop casting in order to wait. I've tried dropping all spells and only using CA with a .35 casting time, but yet they still continue not to cast. I'm not sure what's going on with these two classes, because every other class I use works very well. I'm hoping Kannkor reads this post and looks into this problem.

uhh.. what?

If you can reproduce the issue, tell me exactly how to reproduce it...

I'm not going to go randomly adding a few cas to a list to see if I can make a problem if you know how to do it.

 

[battleaxe]

I ponder if you're running 4 or 6 second weapons..

 

[bob_the_builder]

4 second weapons here.

My dirge/troub also seem to "wait" sometimes and not cast but wait for the auto attack to pass

I sometimes think they are paused because they just auto attack sometimes.

 

[Kannkor]

Has anyone turned off auto attack timing to confirm 100% it's that option?

 

[mjd1992]

Anyone ever get to the bottom of this? I've tried having auto attack timer off and on. It's the same with or without it.

 

[Dooby]

Anyone ever get to the bottom of this? I've tried having auto attack timer off and on. It's the same with or without it.

Have you tried enabling debugging and watching what the bot is doing? It'll often pick up things that aren't obvious (like the bot trying to cast something invalid will hang the cast orders for a bit).

Whenever I've encountered instances similar to what you're talking about, it's always been a case of having a spell/CA that the bot can't successfully cast. Some of the 'hangs' I had were from:
* CA/Spell is in the wrong "page" (i.e. power heal targets a friendly, but the the power spell wanted an enemy so I had to put it into CA tab)
* Picking too many buffs for allowable concentration (e.g. bot would hang trying to cast a priority buff that require concentration I didn't have available)
* CA bitching about something else, can't remember what (but think it was also target related), so CA casts would hang any time it tried to cast that CA

My point? Use the debug tab, and play with the different 'cuts' of debug data. I'd have never solved any of my problems if I didn't learn to use that feature.

 

[leery]

... putting the CAs in an order based on Recast > Min/Max DMG > CstSpd and this works for every other class profile I do

Ok...newb question...

can someone please help me understand what this means?? I'd love to tinker and build my own profiles. Not sure if a) this is a good strategy, and b) what the heck this means. Seems like that formula conflicts??

 

[mistahmikey]

Ok...newb question...

can someone please help me understand what this means?? I'd love to tinker and build my own profiles. Not sure if a) this is a good strategy, and b) what the heck this means. Seems like that formula conflicts??

I believe he is saying that he orders spells as follows:

Lowest Recast Time first, followed by
Highest Damage rating spread, followed by
Highest Cast Time

Whether or not this is a good strategy in general is hard to say, as good cast orders can be very toon-specific. But its probably ok as a going-in position if you don't completely understand how certain spells affect one another.

A couple of things to keep in mind.

For each spell, you really have to look at all 3 of those items at once to create a reasonable cast order. For example, if you place a low damage, low recast time spell first in your order, it could easily prevent your higher dps, slower recast time spells from even casting, reducing your dps.

Figuring how much damage a spell does can be quite complicated. There are spells that have a simple min/max range, but many have multiple ranges, do damage over time, do damage when they terminate, put buffs on you, the mob, or your teammates that deal damage, etc. Using a tool like Advanced Combat Tracker is very helpful in determining which spells are dealing the most damage for you - if you don't have it, just google it and grab it, its free.

Also, using green or blue AE spells can be tricky as well. Even though these typically have slower cast times, if you are fighting multiple mobs, you will improve your dps by casting them higher in your order. When calculating the damage of these spells to figure out where in your order to put them, you have to weight their damage by some factor - I usually use 2.5, which assumes, on average, I will be fighting encounters that have between 2 and 3 mobs. You also need to judiciously use the IE, IAE flags on the Settings Tab and various Spell Tabs to fine tune when these spells are cast.

Finally, there are scenarios where you want your highest damage spells to cast regardless of their recast or cast time. This is because the effects of prior spells can enhance the damage of current spells - for example, the Dirge/Troub Rhythmic Overture/Victorious Concerto combo or the Swashy/Brigand Dance of Metal chain.

All this said, there is no absolute answer here that works for every situation - you just have to play around with things, monitor what happens, and make adjustments.