Question about "Maintain" and "Ignore Duration" CA tab features

[mistahmikey]

Would like some clarification about the "Maintain" and "ID" features on the CA tab. From the wiki:

Maintain - When checked, will not cast the spell already exists (regardless of the target).

ID - Ignore Duration. When NOT checked, you will cast that spell any NPC you target, but will not refresh it until it fades. When checked, you will cast the spell as soon as it's available.

So if Maintain is checked, I assume the spell will not be cast if the effect of the spell is still on any target. But my confusion is, if ID is not checked, what exactly does "until it fades" mean? This sounds like what Maintain is doing. Or does it mean the spell will not cast until its stated recast time expires? If this is true, then it seems like "Maintain" would only be needed for spells that are in effect until cancelled.

So, just want to make sure I have this straight.

If I have a spell that is in effect until cancelled, and I don't want it recast everytime its recast time expires, I would tag it "Maintain".

If I have a spell that is in effect for a stated duration, and its recast time is less than the effect duration, then if I want the spell to recast whenever its recast time expires, I would tag it "ID"

If I have a spell that is in effect for a stated duration, and its recast time is more than the effect duration, then the spell will not be recast until its recast timer expires (i.e, there is no need to tag it "Maintained")

Is this correct, or is there more to it?

 

[Kannkor]

Would like some clarification about the "Maintain" and "ID" features on the CA tab. From the wiki:



So if Maintain is checked, I assume the spell will not be cast if the effect of the spell is still on any target. But my confusion is, if ID is not checked, what exactly does "until it fades" mean? This sounds like what Maintain is doing. Or does it mean the spell will not cast until its stated recast time expires? If this is true, then it seems like "Maintain" would only be needed for spells that are in effect until cancelled.

So, just want to make sure I have this straight.

If I have a spell that is in effect until cancelled, and I don't want it recast everytime its recast time expires, I would tag it "Maintain".

If I have a spell that is in effect for a stated duration, and its recast time is less than the effect duration, then if I want the spell to recast whenever its recast time expires, I would tag it "ID"

If I have a spell that is in effect for a stated duration, and its recast time is more than the effect duration, then the spell will not be recast until its recast timer expires (i.e, there is no need to tag it "Maintained")

Is this correct, or is there more to it?

Maintained = If the ability exists in your maintained abilties, it will not recast it period. Once it fades, it will then recast it. This is primarly used for bard green abilities.
Nothing checked = Will cast that ability on each enemy you target. It will only recast it on that target once it fades (allowing a full duration). This is primarly used for debuffs. Example: reduces a mobs DPS by 20.
Ignore duration = Will recast that ability as soon as it's available, regardless if it's already on (not allowing full duration). This is primarly used for front loaded damage with linger DoTs or debuffs. Example: Ability_01 does 5000 damage and reduces a mobs DPS by 10 for 60 seconds. The ability has a 30s reuse. You would want to recast this ability every time it's up, not wait for the debuff to fade before recasting it.

 

[mistahmikey]

Ok, I guess I am just dense, but I am still confused about what the difference is between "Maintain" and nothing being checked. Can you give me a specific "bard green ability" to take a look at? Perhaps that will clear it up for me.

 

[Kannkor]

Ok, I guess I am just dense, but I am still confused about what the difference is between "Maintain" and nothing being checked. Can you give me a specific "bard green ability" to take a look at? Perhaps that will clear it up for me.

Load up a bard, and any ability that is green...

I'm not on a bard...

 

[mistahmikey]

Well, I have never played a bard manualy, but I'll assume you mean the background of the spell is green. So perhaps my Dirge's "Daro's Sorrowful Dirge" is one. Target enemy, recast of 1.5 sec. duration 75 sec. Based on your previous response, this would need to be marked "Maintain"?

But what about "Tarven's Crippling Crescendo"?. It has a red background, target enemy, recast 7.4 sec, duration 36 sec. If I don't mark this "Maintain", how would the casting work? And how is it fundamentally different than the other one?

Please understand, I am not trying to be difficult here. I just want to get the most out of your product, and I know that many of my spells are not tagged properly. It takes a lot of time and effort to go through the spells of the 7 toons I have to ensure they are tagged properly - I'm just trying to make sure I do it right.

Thanks for your patience.

 

[Kannkor]

Well, I have never played a bard manualy, but I'll assume you mean the background of the spell is green. So perhaps my Dirge's "Daro's Sorrowful Dirge" is one. Target enemy, recast of 1.5 sec. duration 75 sec. Based on your previous response, this would need to be marked "Maintain"?

But what about "Tarven's Crippling Crescendo"?. It has a red background, target enemy, recast 7.4 sec, duration 36 sec. If I don't mark this "Maintain", how would the casting work? And how is it fundamentally different than the other one?

I don't know the name of any dirge spells, so that won't help...

If the ability can only be maintained on 1 target at a time, you want to use Maintained.

If the ability has some frontloaded ability you want it recasted ASAP, you want to ignore the duration.

If none of these apply, don't check anything.

Maintained = If the ability exists in your maintained abilties, it will not recast it period. Once it fades, it will then recast it. This is primarly used for bard green abilities.
Nothing checked = Will cast that ability on each enemy you target. It will only recast it on that target once it fades (allowing a full duration). This is primarly used for debuffs. Example: reduces a mobs DPS by 20.
Ignore duration = Will recast that ability as soon as it's available, regardless if it's already on (not allowing full duration). This is primarly used for front loaded damage with linger DoTs or debuffs. Example: Ability_01 does 5000 damage and reduces a mobs DPS by 10 for 60 seconds. The ability has a 30s reuse. You would want to recast this ability every time it's up, not wait for the debuff to fade before recasting it.

 

[Orwak]

For the green bard debuffs, I'm pretty sure neither one needs to be checked as they can't be cast on different targets/encounters while it is already active. Won't bet my balls on it though, have to check it out at some point if I remember to. If anything, you'd most likely want it set as (M) most of the time, just like Kannkor said.
The snare component debuffs (Tarven's for instance) on the other hand start their reuse timer while the duration is running, and can be cast on different targets, therefore they will act like Kannkor described in his first post.

Assume we have two targets ((A) and (B)), you burn (A) for a little while then switch over to (B), then – assuming the spell is once again up – following will happen:
None checked: The bot will cast the spell on (A) and on (B) once it's back up, won't refresh it on (A) until you once again target (A) and the debuff is not on (A).
Maintained: The bot will cast the spell on (A) but not on (B) until it runs out on (A) at which point it will recast on your current target.
ID: The bot will cast the spell on your current target whenever possible, regardless of whether it's active on your current target or any other mob.

 

[mistahmikey]

Ok, now I get it - the fact that some spells effects can be simulutaneously active on different targets was the concept I was missing. So is there something in the description of the spell that lets you know this is possible?

So I guess its safe to say you would never need to mark a spell with "Self" as target "Maintain"?

Finally, are there any circumstances where you really need to mark a spell "Maintain"? Seems like you would almost always want a spell to cast on a target whenever possible. If you can, please give me an example of a circumstance where this doesn't make sense.

Thanks so much for the help. Understanding this better has made a vast improvement in my teams DPS (mostly because I was not using the ID feature.)

 

[fizual]

bard green debuffs can only be active on 1 target at a time.

example, not a huge deal but for efficiency purposes,

if your fighting a boss that spawns adds.
and the adds have to go down but they melt in 5 seconds. then its not worth your bard lifting its debuffs off the named to apply them to the stupid little add(s). so mark the debuffs as MAINTAIN and it will let the duration of the debuff run itself on the name allowing u to switch to burn adds and the bard not wasting its time casting debuffs on a mob that will die in 5 second,

but whatever, just a thought.

 

[mistahmikey]

Ok, in this case where it is not possible to have an effect active on more than one mob simultaneously, if the recast timer is less than the effect duration, and the effect is currently on the named, but you switch to an add, and you don't have "Maintain" checked, will the bot attempt to cast it on the add when the recast timer expires, even though it is still in effect on the named (I guess, consequently, removing the effect from the named)?

 

[Kevinshp]

Ok, in this case where it is not possible to have an effect active on more than one mob simultaneously, if the recast timer is less than the effect duration, and the effect is currently on the named, but you switch to an add, and you don't have "Maintain" checked, will the bot attempt to cast it on the add when the recast timer expires, even though it is still in effect on the named (I guess, consequently, removing the effect from the named)?

that is what maintain is for! it will keep the spell up for as long as that mob is alive or when the spell wares off. so your mystics debuffs are on the named and you switch to adds if you have them as maintain the mystic will not recast them until the named is dead or they drop off.

Now what would be cool is if the debuffs are up on the named and the name is still alive but the debuffs fall off the toon would switch back to the named and recast them on the named then switch back to adds. YE WISHFUL THINKING BUT I KNOW KANNKOR CAN DO IT!