General Complaint

[chrismed]

Hello Everyone,
I just want to start off saying I really have enjoyed using the wonderful tools provided to include ISX and Innerspace. The people behind these programs have put a lot of time and effort into bring us something to make our lives in the MMORPG world a little easier.

Now with that said
I do have some complaints. I have used some of the scripts that are supplied with the SVN updates. Not that I have much of a choice since the lack of script support on the site is less then what I would expect. I would hope that if we weren’t happy using a certain script that we might be able to find an alternative on this site.

I have played around with other programs for other games such as Run UO which helps create a free server to be able to help you play Ultima Online without having to pay a subscription. The script support on that site is wonderful. Lots of choices depending on how you want to set everything up. Also there are a lot of scripts that modify the server the way you want it set up. This is due to the fact of dedicated people who donate their time end effort into something to make it better then what it would be alone.
(NOTE: sad thing is this is a MMORPG that came out before Everquest and is still being played today and it has better support and more script writing going on? How can this be?)

Don’t get me wrong, I wish I could right scripts, it would make my life a lot easier. I’m not that talented though. I know and understand it takes a lot to create these scripts (I have been trying to learn and it is hard). I thank all those that write them. The problem here though is ( maybe it’s just me) with the loss of one of my favorite scripts (EQ2Harvest) and the addition of a (what I believe to be) less adequate script. I feel I’m having to pay (if I want to continue using everything) for something I’m not even comfortable using (as far as scripts are concerned).

Yes, there are other wonderful scripts provided such as EQ2Bot which work exactly the way I would expect it to and others I don’t even use. But the harvesting script that was in place before worked wonderfully. Writing a script that limits our time and to be honest doesn’t run nearly as good as what I would expect is just substandard.

Ok before this gets going… The 2 hours time limit thing.
Ok yes I have read all the posts. “But people get banned for cheating or abusing these programs” or “It is an immoral concept about cheating”. those aren’t exact quotes but they are just a few of the justification for having a timer or restrictions on the scripts.

Let us decide what is immoral. We are the people paying for the programs that run these scripts and as far as I know most of are adults. If we abuse them then we deserve to be banned. As far as cheating being immoral… What is this whole thing in the first place. Innerspace, ISX, all the scripts that go with it. Is it not immoral (and not just because some license agreement states that is or isn’t or what ever) It is the fact of using programs (not just certain ones or certain things that go with those programs but all) to “cheat” and make our gaming experience a little easier. If they weren’t immoral, then the game writers would have included this into the game.. Oh wait, then the game wouldn’t be as much of a challenge like it was meant to be.
So with the time limit or restrictions on scripts being added and/or these programs being “cheating” or “immoral” thrown out the window, on to the next thing.

Yes, bbout the only thing I used ISX or Innerspace for was harvesting because that is such a tedious job. Yes on occasion I have played around with playing another account with a bot or other such things. But the primary thing for me was the EQ2Harvest bot.

What made this bot work so well is the fact it could detect agro.
If the area was complex all I had to do is set up a path and limit the roaming distance from the path which aloud me to help it avoid obstacles or mobs. ß Main feature I liked.
Also the script was simple to edit if I needed to to add new types of nodes or just what ever.
The scripted worked.

The problem with the Ogre Harvest bot is, and yes it works pretty good. I have read everything on it. I understand how it works. I set up my nav points and then run everywhere I’m going to be harvesting. I get it. It maps the area. I get it. It has problems with obstacles and avoiding things in the area that maybe it shouldn’t go near. I have no control over that. If I’m running the script.. Do I want to die.. Oh no, wait… I’m suppose to baby sit it… What is the purpose of it then.. If I wanted to stair at the screen then I would just be harvesting myself. Am I AFK? No not necessarily. But I do enjoy keeping myself busy with other things while I’m harvesting such as watch TV.. The problem is I turn my head for a moment and I could be in serous trouble or even have my char fall into Lava or off an Island or any other possible deaths or obstacles that could pop up out of no where just because of the lack of control I have over the script. Yes I would use a different script or even repair the EQ2Harvest script if I could. Again I’m not as gifted though as the people who spend all their time on them. But please just give us what we want… don’t spend your time putting restrictions or making them much harder to use then what they should be intended to be. Just because it could be cheating… let us deside on how we want to use them or for how long. Make them easier and at the same time think about the people having to use these things. Also if your going to pour your heart into making them… think about how they are going to be used and all the situations.

If there is something out there that works well… give us a little help. Don’t just through the shambled remains of what was a script at us and say… here .. Fix it your self. We are dependant on you guys (or gals) to help those of us who aren’t so talented. I don’t script. I can play around and edit a script a little here and there but I’m sure not everyone who has to pay for these programs knows one lick of anything. (not saying other people are stupid… just they may have other talents or skills other then scripting)

And this whole thing about paying for a program that is mostly script driven. Man you have to come up with an incentive of some sort to have the script writers be able to provide us with better script options and support or maybe with a little of that money you make on the subscriptions you can actualy hire a few gifted writers to help and provided quality support or even scripts. It kind of sucks and at the same time doesn’t make a lot of sense that we have to pay for programs that are mostly script driven but that area that provides the scripts don’t have any incentive to create, write or help with the scripts because they don’t get paid… even though the programs (ISX and Lavishsoft) have subscriptions attached to them. No wonder we don’t see much script support. There is no motivation for the people who write the scripts to donate their time for the people who are using the programs which in turn are having to pay to use them.

I was actually thinking of starting my own site to see if I could get maybe something worked out and be able to provide scripts from those that use these programs and give credit to those writing the scripts and maybe even some way to compensate them for their hard work.

Needless to say something needs to be fixed with the way this is all set up. There has to be a better way to do things so we the users can get what we need from all sides, the scripters and programers. I would donate if there was actually quality scripts or if it allowed for competition of writing better scripts.

I hope all this sinks in and someone listens.

 

[Pygar]

You mis-construe the intent of the platform and the product.

If the intent was to have as many users using it and make money selling scripts, the product would be structured more as you envision it.

The intent is to provide a development platform for people to write scripts for. Granted many users like yourself don't develop on it and reap rewards from the open source script development that exists for this community.

eq2harvest was originally written by Blazer who is long, long gone to this game/project. I've been the one maintaining it, keeping it running, and in general adding the features in particular that you like.

However, its a horrible script, one that draws unnecessary attention to those foolish enough to run it.

As the controller of the script I opted to remove it and cease support of the project as I above all others understand how bad the methodology in the script was and how much more potential the new system has.

Your welcome to rage at me about that decision, and I'll gladly refund you every penny you've paid me for my product.

 

[wired203]

Which with Pygar would be nil as he has done all of this out of kindness.

But really lets get down to the nity grity, as far as the 2 hour timer it's to protect the community and is there wether anyone likes it or not. It's like the writ limit enough complaints and they can either drop it down further or kill the script. You need to be thankfull for what you have.

Now onto your other issue, you said you have read everything and understand how the mapper works but you really are missing out on some of the major usefullness of it. You are worried about running into lava/off cliffs/getting stuck. Within the mapper for ogre harvest is the ability to create avoid points. This allows you to tell the script "hey this area is bad mmmk" and it listens and keeps you from trying to cross that area. So for lava you would run the outside of a lava area and set avoid points. Trees and rocks you would do the same.

All in all it's more constructive to request help in a certain area that you area having issues with rather than bashing someone elses hard work. I used eq2harvest for years, and I helped beta test ogre harvest before it came out. ogre is much more flexible and usefull however does have a larger learning curve hump to get over.

 

[Nuprecon]

When you start paying for scripts, I'll start giving better support.

 

[larrydoyle]

Pygar, given the post, that was one of the most restrained, thoughtful responses you could have given. IMO, when Ogre harvesting works with eq2bot, it will be vastly superior to eq2harvest from an operational pov.

 

[Pygar]

IMO, when Ogre harvesting works with eq2bot, it will be vastly superior to eq2harvest from an operational pov.

I am currently working on this issue.

 

[mycroft]

My reply would be , if you aren't happy , stop paying for it..move on...or learn and write your own scripts.

 

[Amadeus]

I included a paragraph on this page in order to clarify what you're paying for when you pay for ISXEQ2:

An ISXEQ2 subscription grants you two things and two things only: access to the features available on the current version 
of ISXEQ2 for up to three different computers within a 24 hour time period, and free downloads of new versions 
of ISXEQ2 as they become available.

(You are also given a 5-day window to decide if you like the product before you are charged for it. And, you can cancel your subscription at any time.)


I made the decision when I started this organization (and started development on this product) to impliment the above policy in order to avoid having to care about complaints or care what people think. That's why ISXEQ2 is so cheap.


And, with regard to complaining about scripts, I'm not sure what the big problem is. On these forums is a complete (and free) bot to run groups of boxes (eq2bot), harvest, broker manipulation, transmuting automation, crafting/writs automation, etc..etc.. These all come with instructions and there are thousands of people using them (as they are from the forums with no alterations) without any problems. They all took the time to open the files and learn how the scripting language works (at least to a point) and then edit things as they wish for it to be. The scripting language has an extensive wiki and there are plenty of very simple scripts here on the forums to show you examples of how do to just about ANYTHING. Then, if you have specific questions, you ask them. Do you think anyone here was born with the ability to read/write lavishscript?



Anyway, the moral of the story is that just because you paid a little money for something doesn't mean you get what you want. You get what was being sold. At the top of my posting here is a very clear synopsis of what your tiny monthly payment covers. It was presented to you in clear text before you ever went to paypal in the first place, and you had the opportunity to research these forums (as registration here is free) as well. Basically, you're paying for the rights to use my work in the way that I see fit. It's like renting a movie at blockbuster: you don't get to rewrite the ending, you don't get to change which characters die or how they die, nor do you get to set the rental price. You pick it up and pay rental for as long as you keep it at home, or you bring it back and stop being charged (or you never pick it up in the first place because you know you won't like the movie.)