Version 17 is available! Manual download required

[Kannkor]

http://forums.ogregaming.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=62

Requiring a manual update for now, so people can switch over when they want without losing their profiles. But v16 is not being updated anymore. That means no new grind/raid options, no bug fixes, etc etc. You will HAVE to upgrade to v17 at some stage.

 

[shadow1385]

I've run into a few bugs with v17.

Conjuror
Essence Shift: This should consume the pets health to regain power.
CastPowerHeals -> Unknown -> Essence Shift VII -> NULL

Channeler
Consume Construct: This should consume the pets health to regain power.
CastPowerHeals -> Unknown -> Consume Construct -> NULL

Triggered Rejuvenation: In combat triggered pet heal.
Will not cast if set to Combat.

Thanks for your hard work...

 

[blackmolly1]

i try to keep my Masked strike and ambush abilities together on my assassin. before the ver.17 caststack change they simply shared a chain tab. as masked strike puts me in stealth and ambush is a stealth ability with the same reuse time it works well
but no matter what i try Masked stike works fine but it never casts ambush after masked strike. i tried just listing masked strike as a ca then ambush as the next ability in cast stack and even tried the pre-cast and post-cast options (even tho it says not to use stealth attacks in those) with no resolution

 

[Cheesy]

i try to keep my Masked strike and ambush abilities together on my assassin. before the ver.17 caststack change they simply shared a chain tab. as masked strike puts me in stealth and ambush is a stealth ability with the same reuse time it works well
but no matter what i try Masked stike works fine but it never casts ambush after masked strike. i tried just listing masked strike as a ca then ambush as the next ability in cast stack and even tried the pre-cast and post-cast options (even tho it says not to use stealth attacks in those) with no resolution

As ambush requires stealth, it'll always try to use an ability on your setup tab that you have for putting you into stealth.

You have 2 options:

a) Remove masked strike from Cast stack, and put it into the setup tab as an Invis ability for combat arts.
b) Go into your ability export, find Ambush, find the ReqStealth bit, and set it from TRUE, to FALSE. Then in cast stack, only have masked strike, with a post cast of Ambush (Or other way round).

Method a is the easier one, Method b may lead to other complications and is a do so at your own risk.

 

[blackmolly1]

As ambush requires stealth, it'll always try to use an ability on your setup tab that you have for putting you into stealth.

You have 2 options:

a) Remove masked strike from Cast stack, and put it into the setup tab as an Invis ability for combat arts.
b) Go into your ability export, find Ambush, find the ReqStealth bit, and set it from TRUE, to FALSE. Then in cast stack, only have masked strike, with a post cast of Ambush (Or other way round).

Method a is the easier one, Method b may lead to other complications and is a do so at your own risk.

step 1 is perfect.... i actually had masked strike for the invis ability but it was still in my cast stack list
thanks

so now thats fixed any tips on how to get the concealment chain to work? concealment casts and then is followed by fatal followup, skipping all the stealth abilities...

 

[lazycrafter]

step 1 is perfect.... i actually had masked strike for the invis ability but it was still in my cast stack list
thanks

so now thats fixed any tips on how to get the concealment chain to work? concealment casts and then is followed by fatal followup, skipping all the stealth abilities...

At this time a good concealment chain is impossible with v17 and you can forget about a chain cycle between You PFT chain and Concealment/IPS chains.

 

[battleaxe]

At this time a good concealment chain is impossible with v17 and you can forget about a chain cycle between You PFT chain and Concealment/IPS chains.

I haven't checked as I don't have this class, but could you not use pre-casting or post-casting to mini-chain the stealthing ability + stealth attack?

 

[lazycrafter]

I haven't checked as I don't have this class, but could you not use pre-casting or post-casting to mini-chain the stealthing ability + stealth attack?

Not Hijacking Kankors v17 thread with this again, its been/being talked about on the ogregaming forums. In short no you can't.

 

[Kevinshp]

how do you go back to V16?

 

[bjcasey]

how do you go back to V16?

Why would you want to? V17 is eventually going to be made mandatory. You'll have to update to it sometime.

 

[Kevinshp]

Why would you want to? V17 is eventually going to be made mandatory. You'll have to update to it sometime.

Melee auto timing

 

[pz]

how do you go back to V16?

do the opposite of what you did to go to v17.
put your old v16 dll back.
put back your backed-up v16 profiles.

 

[Kannkor]

do the opposite of what you did to go to v17.
put your old v16 dll back or just grab the install off teh wiki.
put back your backed-up v16 profiles.

v16 isn't available for download really anywhere. The install off the wiki is now v17, as I wanted new users to use it.

 

[lazycrafter]

I just have two folder one is innerspace with v17 in and one is innerpace with v16 in.

Why would you want to go back to v16? Because v17 isn't as good as v16 for at least 2 classes, and some don't want to pay for incomplete software.

EDIT:
I know v17 is a work in progress and Kannkor is doing his best to get it working for every class.

 

[Kannkor]

I just have two folder one is innerspace with v17 in and one is innerpace with v16 in.

Why would you want to go back to v16? Because v17 isn't as good as v16 for at least 2 classes, and some don't want to pay for incomplete software.

EDIT:
I know v17 is a work in progress and Kannkor is doing his best to get it working for every class.

At this stage the only thing I really know of that isn't in v16, is chain tabs. And that really only effects assassins. And there are a ton of other improvements in v17. But, to each their own... for now. Once v16 breaks in any fashion at all, you will HAVE to switch to v17, as I won't be maintaining two versions.

 

[blackmolly1]

i like v17 with the exception of chaintabs and ignore stealth option, cause i like my preds. will they be included with v17 at some point?

 

[lazycrafter]

At this stage the only thing I really know of that isn't in v16, is chain tabs. And that really only effects assassins. And there are a ton of other improvements in v17. But, to each their own... for now. Once v16 breaks in any fashion at all, you will HAVE to switch to v17, as I won't be maintaining two versions.

Yea, Other then the chain tab, v17 rocks. That's the only reason I still use v16 and yea I don't expect you to keep v16 up.

 

[DaggerSplicer]

Well, that explains why my Assassin dropped off 600k+with the swap over to V17.."Show me the money..err Chain Tabs".

 

[fl0pster]

or.................... betray to a ranger.....

 

[DaggerSplicer]

Heh. Betray to Ranger LOL. I was wondering several things. First, no matter how I adjust the percentage for Verdict to trigger, "It never does with V17", is this intentional? Because I now have to use MCP or manual switch to my inquisitor. Next, is the maintain spell function incorporated or merged with max increments. When you first load up Ogre Bot the feature shows until you select the spell or ca then it only gives max increments or ignore duration or ignored encounter nukes dependent on the ability selected but no maintain option. Lastly, has the dirge option for Jcap and Rhythmic overture been removed for V17? I read the release note but could not determine the status of these functions.

 

[Cheesy]

Heh. Betray to Ranger LOL. I was wondering several things. First, no matter how I adjust the percentage for Verdict to trigger, "It never does with V17", is this intentional? Because I now have to use MCP or manual switch to my inquisitor. Next, is the maintain spell function incorporated or merged with max increments. When you first load up Ogre Bot the feature shows until you select the spell or ca then it only gives max increments or ignore duration or ignored encounter nukes dependent on the ability selected but no maintain option. Lastly, has the dirge option for Jcap and Rhythmic overture been removed for V17? I read the release note but could not determine the status of these functions.

This looks like a good read.

Jcap/RO can be used to exactly the same effectiveness in the cast stack, if not more because you know exactly when they will be used.

 

[Kannkor]

Heh. Betray to Ranger LOL. I was wondering several things. First, no matter how I adjust the percentage for Verdict to trigger, "It never does with V17", is this intentional? Because I now have to use MCP or manual switch to my inquisitor. Next, is the maintain spell function incorporated or merged with max increments. When you first load up Ogre Bot the feature shows until you select the spell or ca then it only gives max increments or ignore duration or ignored encounter nukes dependent on the ability selected but no maintain option. Lastly, has the dirge option for Jcap and Rhythmic overture been removed for V17? I read the release note but could not determine the status of these functions.

My verdict works perfectly every time. There was one other guy that said he didn't work properly, but could never reproduce it.

Maintained is the default functionality, therefore the option doesn't really exist anymore.

Jcap/RO (as mentioned above) can be put into your CastStack.

 

[Ebofu]

There was entirely more choice in v16, everything in v17 has been railroaded unfortunately.
I'm reverting back to v16 until it breaks or this is improved.

 

[Kannkor]

There was entirely more choice in v16, everything in v17 has been railroaded unfortunately.
I'm reverting back to v16 until it breaks or this is improved.

I guess if you're referring to having the choice to use abilities, what I dare call 'incorrectly', then yes, you absolutely had more choice.
Lets use an example, since you didn't mention anything at all but a generalization, I shall assume you meant this exact ability, and using it this exact way.

Putting an ability that requires an NPC target, as a heal, or 'combat'. The bot internally "uses" these abilities by casting them directly on said player (to avoid changing targets). Previously, you could label these as a heal, or combat, and if you happen to have an NPC within range at that very time, it may be successfully cast. Otherwise it would fail, and cause the bot to 'get stuck' trying to cast something, it clearly can't in that manner.

So yes, v17 provides you with the CORRECT choices.

Likewise, previously you could label a single target nuke, with the following that make zero sense.
[M] - Maintain. It's a nuke, there is nothing to maintain.
[ID] - Ignore duration. Same as above.
[IE] - Ignore Encounter smart nukes. It's a single target...
[IAE] - Ignore Area Effect smart nukes... see above..

Again, the bot is now aware of the type of ability it is.

Is it possible, you have found an ability that doesn't show up properly? Such as a nuke/heal that only shows as a heal, and not a nuke? Yes, that is possible. But in your infinite wisdom, you'd rather bitch about being raidroaded, than to provide any information at all, such as the ability name, class, and how it is mislabeled. I've fixed a bunch of these.

Going back to 'more choice' in v16, lets talk about what you can't choose to do in v16.
You can't choose how many people to res with a group res.
You can't choose how many people to heal with a group heal.
You can't choose to put a nuke/debuff/offensive anything before ANYTHING in the priority tab.
You can't choose to inter-mix NamedCA and CAs.
You can't choose when to buff, such as after healing but before CAs.

or this is improved.

This is personally my favourite part. Based on your entire post, I can say I have implemented every single suggestion you made, which was none. Why do you feel something would change out of no where, if no one suggests/recommends it?

I was very open, and post heavy about v17 being created. It was users who requested it, and users requested tons and tons of things I added in, specifically for them.

 

[DaggerSplicer]

My verdict works perfectly every time. There was one other guy that said he didn't work properly, but could never reproduce it.

Maintained is the default functionality, therefore the option doesn't really exist anymore.

Jcap/RO (as mentioned above) can be put into your CastStack.

Thanks for the reply. I have come to determine that my inquisitor spend most of his time healing..so in the process verdict is being bypassed for healing. I figured this out when working on a training dummy. When I was healing the bot would not trigger verdict. When casting damage spells the bot triggered verdict every time without fail. Is there work in progress to have the bot trigger the effect when the percentage is reached even if the bot is in the action of curing or healing? Similar to the cancel for cure feature. I would even take suggestions on setting the bot to heal less so it can trigger the verdict when need.

 

[Ebofu]

Your removal of chain functionality flummoxed me. Personally, it's critical for almost every class. Exclusions would be healers, tanks other than monk, and 2-3 others.

Yes, i was referring to 'Incorrect' use of abilities. Basically anything that you could customise for actual results you removed, to be replaced by meaningless fluff. One example of the consequences by limiting ability definitions is you can't set 'temps' which have a longer duration than recast as non-combat buffs, which prevents you wasting time initially on pull. I never found triggering 'combat' by toggling auto attack as efficient as 'incorrectly' applying spells from priority tab to non-combat buffs tab.

You defend the choice by saying you removed useless tags. By your very definition they were useless, meaning no improvement came from removing them.

Don't misunderstand me, it's not as if everything in v17 is redundant or working incorrectly but currently v16 outperforms v17, token changes mean nothing while that is the case. I haven't encountered anything that gates me yet based on HPS/Survival and the lack of chains have hampered my profiles enough not to warrant the change. If you found DPS gains from the transition, please teach me your ways, yet considering all the feedback I have found is negative, I doubt that would eventuate.

 

[Kannkor]

Thanks for the reply. I have come to determine that my inquisitor spend most of his time healing..so in the process verdict is being bypassed for healing. I figured this out when working on a training dummy. When I was healing the bot would not trigger verdict. When casting damage spells the bot triggered verdict every time without fail. Is there work in progress to have the bot trigger the effect when the percentage is reached even if the bot is in the action of curing or healing? Similar to the cancel for cure feature. I would even take suggestions on setting the bot to heal less so it can trigger the verdict when need.

It should verdict BEFORE touching the Caststack. While it won't interrupt an ability to verdict, as soon as it's done an ability, it should.

Take a screen shot of your inq tab and post it. I'll match mine exactly and see if I can reproduce it.

 

[Kannkor]

Your removal of chain functionality flummoxed me. Personally, it's critical for almost every class. Exclusions would be healers, tanks other than monk, and 2-3 others.

Nothing new to add about chain tabs. I've been pretty vocal.

Yes, i was referring to 'Incorrect' use of abilities. Basically anything that you could customise for actual results you removed, to be replaced by meaningless fluff. One example of the consequences by limiting ability definitions is you can't set 'temps' which have a longer duration than recast as non-combat buffs, which prevents you wasting time initially on pull. I never found triggering 'combat' by toggling auto attack as efficient as 'incorrectly' applying spells from priority tab to non-combat buffs tab.

This is the first I've ever heard of anyone doing that for temps. I suspect I could make all temps appear in the 'non combat buff' selection. I've considered making a 'pre-buff only' area. Where you could do something (such as self target/aa) and it would use said abilities only if your target was in combat, but you weren't. So a.. non-combat combat... Either way, there are options when we communicate.

You defend the choice by saying you removed useless tags. By your very definition they were useless, meaning no improvement came from removing them.

There were TONS of improvements that came by removing the useless tags. It was a support nightmare. It means a reduction in support for me, which means more time to code.
It also means less peoples bots were 'freezing' because of making silly selections the bot just couldn't handle. Like trying to res with a nuke, for example.

Don't misunderstand me, it's not as if everything in v17 is redundant or working incorrectly but currently v16 outperforms v17, token changes mean nothing while that is the case. I haven't encountered anything that gates me yet based on HPS/Survival and the lack of chains have hampered my profiles enough not to warrant the change. If you found DPS gains from the transition, please teach me your ways, yet considering all the feedback I have found is negative, I doubt that would eventuate.

I have found greatly increased DPS and survival from going to v17. With priests gaining the most out of it, simply by being able to throw debuffs early on in the rotation. Utility classes come next, for the same reason, being able to move some previous 'combat' stuff down in the list. And finally DPS, has been very minor, but gained some effiencies with having some Named stuff mixed in with CA stuff.

Also, v17 has better FPS performance than v16, especially in combat. So you gain there also.
Based on your previous comment, if you're using chains on nearly every toon, and you didn't take the time to re-add those abilities, I can see why you would have a loss across the board

 

[kyew]

v17 is like miles better than v16 with the exception of chaintabs for assassin and possibly wizard. no other class should have been using chaintab to begin with.

 

[Tantroth]

Your removal of chain functionality flummoxed me. Personally, it's critical for almost every class.

Don't misunderstand me, it's not as if everything in v17 is redundant or working incorrectly but currently v16 outperforms v17, token changes mean nothing while that is the case. I haven't encountered anything that gates me yet based on HPS/Survival and the lack of chains have hampered my profiles enough not to warrant the change. If you found DPS gains from the transition, please teach me your ways, yet considering all the feedback I have found is negative, I doubt that would eventuate.

I originally thought the chains would hinder the Brigand as well, however, in both my original reworking, and Saha's, the Brig actually does even better as is than before with chains. Now assassin's, I can agree with. I have yet to be able to get the assassin I was working on to do anything like he should, so I temporarily shelved him for the moment until I decide whether to change him to a ranger or not.

As to the DPS gain, I will echo the others, I also saw a DPS boost over v16. (Other than the SK, but some of that is attributable to gear changes I did)

 

[Lorgalis]

My verdict works perfectly every time. There was one other guy that said he didn't work properly, but could never reproduce it.

Maintained is the default functionality, therefore the option doesn't really exist anymore.

Jcap/RO (as mentioned above) can be put into your CastStack.

My Verdict never works in V17. I'm using your default Inquis, modified of course for my group makeup and style. Worked most of the time (80+%) in V16. To date (30+ zones) has not cast in V17 (unless I pause and do it manually). Any tips? It's really annoying, LOL.

*edit* I should note that my Inquis is a 'secondary" healer, so doesn't spend too much time healing, mostly DPSing.

 

[Lorgalis]

I originally thought the chains would hinder the Brigand as well, however, in both my original reworking, and Saha's, the Brig actually does even better as is than before with chains. Now assassin's, I can agree with. I have yet to be able to get the assassin I was working on to do anything like he should, so I temporarily shelved him for the moment until I decide whether to change him to a ranger or not.

As to the DPS gain, I will echo the others, I also saw a DPS boost over v16. (Other than the SK, but some of that is attributable to gear changes I did)

I was (initially) pretty pissed about the change. I had to rework A LOT of effin toons, haha. Now that I have it going and slowly going through that massive team, overall it's alright. Mostly gains from my team. Still a few toons to go to get it all done (did I mention A LOT of toons to rework? ), but overall it's better.

Thanks (sorta, you making me work my ass off and all for all these toons, jerk!) Kannkor

 

[Kannkor]

My Verdict never works in V17. I'm using your default Inquis, modified of course for my group makeup and style. Worked most of the time (80+%) in V16. To date (30+ zones) has not cast in V17 (unless I pause and do it manually). Any tips? It's really annoying, LOL.

*edit* I should note that my Inquis is a 'secondary" healer, so doesn't spend too much time healing, mostly DPSing.

Hmm...
We need to figure out what is different between these so I can reproduce it not working. For example I did this on a training dummy. I set the verdict to 90%, and as soon as the mob dropped under 90%, it verdict every single time it was up. I couldn't make my inq not cast it. I spent a good hour doing various things primalz suggested as his doesn't work very often either, couldn't reproduce it. We compared/shared profiles, exports, etc.

 

[Lorgalis]

Let me know what info I can give you to help figure it out. Could just be a user error, who knows. Currently, as said above, it only casts if I do it manually.

 

[Midnyte_ride]

How do cure potions work for V17? Noticed in the notes that code support was put in for them, but they don't show in the ability list. Do they need to be added to the list through the items tab? Or am I missing something?

 

[Kannkor]

How do cure potions work for V17? Noticed in the notes that code support was put in for them, but they don't show in the ability list. Do they need to be added to the list through the items tab? Or am I missing something?

Yes, via item tab.

 

[Midnyte_ride]

Few things I noticed changing over to V17 tonight and a little playing around with it... Firstly, it's great that ogre can determine what options should be available to any given spell in the cast stack, but it stopped my usual method of keeping certain heals up on the pull. In the past I was able to put reactives and wards into the buff tab so they'd be maintained continuously outside of combat. Now with just the one tab and those spells not being given the option to be classified as a buff there's no way to ensure they're up for the pull besides forcing it with my tank, and I'd rather not have to alter my heal order to accommodate that . Any way of altering the ability export to include other classifications for spells (namely, giving heals the option to be classified as buffs as well)? Also along those lines, Inquisition (inqy spell) doesn't give any options as far as whose health to monitor and how many (as in, you can't tell it to cast Inquisition when 2 or more group members drop below 70%), it only asks for a health % with no choice of target.

I couldn't get it to use my manastone. Added it as a power heal in the cast stack at 30% power, tried with both @Me and my toons name, no bueno. Other items worked fine, but everything else I tried was marked as a named CA.

All things being equal, compared to V16 auto attack damage is still down. I know you added auto attack timing to 17, so dunno why it's acting this way. Wasn't uncommon for my bruiser to land 3 or 4 combat arts with the auto attack waiting to happen. Had roughly 88 cast speed and 31 recovery. But as I said, same stats as V16, just fewer auto attacks managing to go off

 

[Kannkor]

Few things I noticed changing over to V17 tonight and a little playing around with it... Firstly, it's great that ogre can determine what options should be available to any given spell in the cast stack, but it stopped my usual method of keeping certain heals up on the pull. In the past I was able to put reactives and wards into the buff tab so they'd be maintained continuously outside of combat. Now with just the one tab and those spells not being given the option to be classified as a buff there's no way to ensure they're up for the pull besides forcing it with my tank, and I'd rather not have to alter my heal order to accommodate that

This is working as intended.
Here is what I'd call the proper way of doing it, that won't interfere with your caststack/options etc.
Add (to the very bottom, if you want) to your priest caststack with the following:
Lets use GWard as the ability in question.

Gward -> Combat -> *Tank (or your tanks name, or your tanks actual alias)

Then when you want your wards/heals/reactives up before a pull, on your tank, target yourself, and turn on attack (I personally drag my melee auto attack so it's in hotbar 1, so I F1, then 1).

The reason this is working as intended, is having people spam abilities out of combat is a VERY bottish thing to do. If a player happens upon you while you're afk, you have a high chance of getting petitioned. If a GM happens upon you while you're afk, and you forgot to pause, you're definitely getting banned for unattended game play. This way, unless you happen to target yourself and enter combat, then go afk, your toons will be sitting idle.

Worth noting: You can move these up in your cast order if you desire (I do). The reason I said at the bottom, it means they will only cast if absolutely, nothing else in your entire list is available to cast (which is the case when you're out of combat sitting idle).

. Inquisition (inqy spell) doesn't give any options as far as whose health to monitor and how many (as in, you can't tell it to cast Inquisition when 2 or more group members drop below 70%), it only asks for a health % with no choice of target.

It's because it's a self only ability. I'll look into it and modify it where needed so it's fixed.

I couldn't get it to use my manastone. Added it as a power heal in the cast stack at 30% power, tried with both @Me and my toons name, no bueno. Other items worked fine, but everything else I tried was marked as a named CA.

I'll have to test it.

All things being equal, compared to V16 auto attack damage is still down. I know you added auto attack timing to 17, so dunno why it's acting this way. Wasn't uncommon for my bruiser to land 3 or 4 combat arts with the auto attack waiting to happen. Had roughly 88 cast speed and 31 recovery. But as I said, same stats as V16, just fewer auto attacks managing to go off

Most of the auto attack timing code from v17 is copy/pasted from v16. How it determines the time until attack etc is all identical. I'd need more information and data before I could really look at it. I may look at adding a debug option for aa timing, so people can watch spam in their console.