Lag caused by OGRE

bob_the_builder

Well-Known Member
Lag with bot loaded??

So since we had the recent issue with unable to load ISXEQ2 properly I have noticed that my FPS is almost 5x higher when OGRE is not loaded (easy to reproduce in a raid).

So basically what has happened in the past week is that my FPS has decreased significantly. I thought it was my cable, i upgrade to 40D/4U Mbps, I upgrade my switch/router, and I even formatted/reisntalled one machine's OS.

When ISX/OGRE is loaded and I am in a raid my FPS is so bad that I can not play. As soon as I unload ISX/OGRE my FPS jumps up to a normal state.

I really thought this was my problem for a week until tonight when we have/had the ISX load problem and 1 of my machines couldnt load ISX/OGRE so my wife had to play manually... and her FPS were in the high 30's the entire raid. My other 2 were in the low single digits UNTIL I unloaded ISX/OGRE on 1 machien and BAM it popped up to 30's FPS.


HELP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Kannkor

Ogre
Uhh.. you'll have to be more specific..
Loading isxogre, and loading ogrebot are VERY different. If you notice any FPS lose from simply loading isxogre, then we have issues.

Loading Ogrebot in a raid setting, sure you'll have FPS lose. It's a combination of many things.
1) At a raid, your FPS is lower because your computer is processing what everyone is doing (regardless of having a bot loaded). You probably notice lower FPS when at a raid, than say in a group in the same zone. Much of this processing is done directly on the CPU. (Where much of it could be pushed to the GPU...)
2) Ogrebot does a LOT of checks of what to cast. This is also done directly on the CPU.

Now, each one separate doesn't really cause enough for you to notice a problem. When you do both at the same time (bot at a raid), you will max out your CPU (keep in mind, that EQ2 doesn't use multi cores worth fuck all, and how I understand it, innerspace is running off of what EQ2 has available).

When I code, I do my best to keep CPU load in mind, but I will almost always opt for maximize bot performance, over FPS. Keep in mind also, everything that has a checkbox, if it's unchecked, those routines aren't run at all.

Here are a few things you can do to gain quite a few CPU cycles during a heavy load (note: sitting idle in a zone by yourself, you won't notice much gain, but under load you will).
EQ2 Options - Go through your display options, and reduce EVERY SINGLE OPTION to the bare minimum. Do you want the game to look pretty, or to play smoother? If you choose pretty, then you sacrifice FPS. Depending on your computer, you can go from 3 FPS at load to 20+.
That alone will net you the absolute largest gain in FPS.
Task Manager - Make sure EQ2 is running on a core that has nothing else running on it. If you are on a single core, do not run anything else. No webpages, no instance messengers, no ACT, no IRC, no weather plugin stuff on your desktop etc. All this takes CPU cycles.
Note: If you're on a quad core or i7 - I've found Windows handles this fine and puts it on its own core.

Lastly, these will not net you very much, but if you need every last possible frame, some of these may help. However, every single option below WILL have an effect on how Ogrebot runs.
Change your Turbo to something low (50, for example). This means it will only run 50 lines of code per frame. Currently this doesn't save, so you would have to update it each time you load the bot. As a reference, Ogrebot sets Turbo to 500 when it loads. (It doesn't actually run 500 per frame, it's up to 500). (Note: It's not actually 'lines of code', it's commands.. just easier to explain as lines of code.)
Don't use "Smart AE nukes" or "Smart encounter nukes".
Don't use Raid options, or Limited, or Grind options.
Don't select any "Target" option as "Raid" or "Grouponly" - this includes heals/wards etc etc.
Reduce the items Ogrebot is doing for you. IE: don't have it buff, heal, power heal, announce, priority, etc if all you really need it for, is to cast CAs.
All and all, if you do the above 5 suggestions, I would only expect to gain 1-3 FPS, if that. I did it as a test and couldn't notice ANY change at all.

If you've done everything I suggested above, unfortunately it comes down to raw CPU power. A higher speed processor (regardless of cores) will always play EQ2 better. A dual core 3.2ghz processor will out perform a i7 2.2ghz processor. Depending on your setup/situation, you can play with overclocking (mind your heat), get a higher ghz processor, get a whole new computer.

I am, and will continue to refine Ogrebot so it not only performs in-game to the best of its ability, but also on medium and lower end processors.
 

bob_the_builder

Well-Known Member
So right, there are 3 things loaded... 4... lol .. or 5 even; Innerspace, ISXEQ2, ISXOGRE, and ogre.iss and maybe ogremcp but not lately cause i cant click the buttons cause the client is framing so badly.

Let me 'try' to narrow it down tonights raid.

I have had these 3 machines for a year, one of them 'used' to run 3 at once and now it barely runs 1 during a raid.

Again this is only happening during a raid fight. Like during combat only. It's like there is new code in OGRE.ISS (or could it be because of uplink?) I dont know...

But seems like ogre bot is scanning every single raid memeber and its taking too long (my guess). Because it is only occurring during raid combat. I dont single group but let me try that today during lunch.

It really started say 7-9 days ago. It was first noticeable on my laptop cause it used to run 3, but it is apparent on all three... until last night when my wife (was running isx and ogre) crashed zoning (she was already been pissed for 7 days thinking she had a virus or rootkit killing her fps). When she logged back in with no isx/isxogre/ogre she manually played (first time in a raid manually in years, right). She was topping 40fps in raid combat the rest of last night while my 2 machines chugged...

What I have noticed though is when it happens the everquest2.exe process is sitting at 25% ... I would just think it would hit 100% , it's almost like the screen is in the background and not a foreground process, though I did try change the priority level of the exe but it didnt help, process stayed at 25% while the screen was framing at 5-10 fps.

So, let me see if i can get this to bog down during a group at lunch today, im sure it will be fine though ... and I'll have to play manually tonight but I'll load up ogre bot and eq2bot (not together) and test between them.

Fair enough?
 

bob_the_builder

Well-Known Member
1) At a raid, your FPS is lower because your computer is processing what everyone is doing (regardless of having a bot loaded). You probably notice lower FPS when at a raid, than say in a group in the same zone. Much of this processing is done directly on the CPU. (Where much of it could be pushed to the GPU...)
-- I hear yas but after my wife restarted her client and played the remaining 2 hours manually with no bot (i forgot about eq2bot last night) she was smooth running, no framing. I hope she reads this and chimes in, she said she had an epiphany last night without running the ogre bot.

2) Ogrebot does a LOT of checks of what to cast. This is also done directly on the CPU.
- That what is wierd, I think, i dont recall ever looking at the everquest2.exe process in task manager but lately since ive checked it is running at only 25-45% I have never seen it higher. It is like something is making the client a background process.
We currently are able to only run one one client per computer (we have 5 accounts we used to play).
 

Kannkor

Ogre
2) Ogrebot does a LOT of checks of what to cast. This is also done directly on the CPU.
- That what is wierd, I think, i dont recall ever looking at the everquest2.exe process in task manager but lately since ive checked it is running at only 25-45% I have never seen it higher. It is like something is making the client a background process.
We currently are able to only run one one client per computer (we have 5 accounts we used to play).
When you check it, open task manager and choose "always on top" then click on the EQ2 window. Good chance your proc will max out.

Also, how are you looking at your proc usage? Make sure you click on Performance so you can see the cores being used. Otherwise you are using 25% of all CPU power. So if you had 4 cores, 25% is 1 core being used with 3 idle.

There has been no major changes to Ogrebot in quite some time. I just checked everything I have done in the last few weeks. Everything was extremely minor, and none of it would affect the CPU.

I started going through and tweaking small things in ogre to help with FPS, reducing checks etc. However most of this is already optimized and I had very little to change.
 

wolfppo

Active Member
Im killing mobs in KD and running 6 toons all on same comp my mt is in highperformance and rest are in extreme and getting 40 fps on mt instance and 60 or so on rest all running ogre.
 

bob_the_builder

Well-Known Member
In raid (20-24) and in combat is when this happens. Inside/outside .. doesnt matter ..

but thanks for the reply, I was really just wanting to toss out and discuss. I've obviously gone and busted something, right.

I rebuilt all of the save files for my 5 toons and re did the UI from default. I'll try tonight in raid w/ OGRE and EQ2BOT (not same time right).
 

bob_the_builder

Well-Known Member
I just don't know. Unloaded ISXOGRE and ran eq2bot and didn't have the frame/stutter.

I just don't know what to do.

If we are in combat in a raid and start up OGRE the frames just stutter so bad can't even move the mouse to click a button.

I don't know what else to do, this worked fine on all my puters until last Thursday night, I think that's really when it started.

Well anyways guys, dont know..
 

Amadeus

The Maestro
Staff member
Did you try wiping the entire innerspace directory and trying again (i.e., with fresh, new setting files?)
 

bob_the_builder

Well-Known Member
Think I got it. something .. or alot of SetUpChars and SetUpUplink in each one

Like all 3 had the same. 3 names in SetUpUplink and like 10 in SetUpChars

... So, *face palm* which section and how can I get all 3 computers to control any toon?

,,, Thanks Bob
 

Kannkor

Ogre
Think I got it. something .. or alot of SetUpChars and SetUpUplink in each one

Like all 3 had the same. 3 names in SetUpUplink and like 10 in SetUpChars

... So, *face palm* which section and how can I get all 3 computers to control any toon?

,,, Thanks Bob
I don't follow..

I have 3 in my SetUpLink and nearly 100 in my SetUpChars.

Are you saying when you had that info filled in, it lagged, when you took it out, you had no lag?
 

bob_the_builder

Well-Known Member
So do I have to setup the Uplink?

if all I want to do is have the MCP give commands to other toons on other computers like come2me or jump or repair do I still have to setup the computer in Uplink

I have to have SetUplink computers or just the toons in SetupUpChars?


Im going with this from wiki:
NOTE - If you play with others that know you bot, or people you trust to be on your authorized list, you can add them also. You can have a mix of full information, and character name only.
 
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bob_the_builder

Well-Known Member
Oh, well then that's not it....

I'm going to reinstall Innerspace and Ogre on my wife's puter and see if that fixes it.
Grrr. I did a LOAD ISXOGRE, put in my user/pass and it did NOT download all the OGRE files. It said there were 100 files in the manifest but never downloads them.

This was a fresh Innerspace and ISX install.
 

pz

Active Member
try ISXOgre:Repatch[0] to update completely. i've never had to use it, not sure why a fresh install didn't handle it, but there you go.
 

bob_the_builder

Well-Known Member
So an update .. Ive basically rebuilt the Innerspace/ISXRQ2/ISXOGRE/OGRE directories and Save files.

What I seem to have noticed is that seems to be related to the distance the bot is from a mob. If I leave a bot passed 20 meters there is no framing/lag.. the closer I move the bot to the mob the client just stalls out. I have to either move back or close Ogre.

I play on Extended server if that matters any.
 

insanitywiz

Senior Member
Not sure if there is any difference to the .exe's on the Extenze server, but I ran 7 toons in a full raid last night without any significant lag. I of course play with minimum settings.
 

Kannkor

Ogre
So an update .. Ive basically rebuilt the Innerspace/ISXRQ2/ISXOGRE/OGRE directories and Save files.

What I seem to have noticed is that seems to be related to the distance the bot is from a mob. If I leave a bot passed 20 meters there is no framing/lag.. the closer I move the bot to the mob the client just stalls out. I have to either move back or close Ogre.

I play on Extended server if that matters any.
What are the specs of your computer?

This started right after a SOE patch where they did some shit to help increase performance did it not? There isn't a single thing in Ogre that would matter how close you are to other PCs, since if you're in a raid with them, all the data is available so I have no reason to check their distance.

Did you go through (manually) every single display option and reduce it to the max? I may post one here so people can just drop it into a directory and use it to test things like this (or all the time).
 

bob_the_builder

Well-Known Member
Not a computer spec thing really. We can run 3 easily on each machine normal graphics at 40FPS > easily (no ogre bot started).

I don't know now when it started but Im thinking last friday, so maybe after a Thursday patch.

I can have OGRE (bot) running, FPS are great, well over 40 (one client on a machine atm). We pull a RAID mob and literally the closer I get to the mob the client literally just stops, possibly doing a frame maybe every other second. If I close OGRE or hold the S key down to move back out then the client catches up and begins processing , if I leave the bots 20+ meters then it does not seem to happen (noticed on a wizard since they rarely move in).

Weve been running eq2bot past few nights with no issues at all.

I dont know man, was enjoying using OGRE since Nov 2010. Same computers, they haven't changed any. When Velious came out, still the same machines, we ran 2-3 clients (6 outta the raid) on each system w/ OGRE since release.

Reason I thought it was uplink is that I would run my tank in and tell my bots in the raid to come2me. When I disabled uplink (removed from char file) the bots didnt move up to the tank, right. SO the frame/stutter/lag thing really didnt surface. Make sense?

*shrug* dunno , I give up.
 
I notice similar lag when I'm boxing in pq's, but i always just attributed that to the fact that there are 50+ players+10 or so pets + 50+ mobs (SG). Other than that I 6-box on one pc regularly in instances(heroic, sf x4, dov x2) with no problems.
 

bob_the_builder

Well-Known Member
me too, I can run a group and even a x2. I can run 4 on one of my machines, no problem right.. I haven't run a SFx4 in a long time .

So.. to be clear, it's only in x4 DoV raid instance. TOFSx2 doesnt demonstrate these stutters/lag/framing...

But you gotta get close to the target... well for me it seems. So like 1st name in Kraytoc the bots are all out, they never go in... and trash mobs die fast. A good one are the long lasting boss fights where we are forced to be close (within 15-10m)... for me, my clients (on any of the 3 machines) just basically stops. .. the innerspace FPS shows 999.99 and then the client will show a spell cast and the FPS will be like 8 ... then back to 999.99 .. wait.. ok then a spell cast FPS might be 7.xx .. etc.

If i get some time ill run a few bots down to a PQ and run one in a group only and then another in x4. *shrug* might give me the results im looking for.

And I thought the everquest2.exe for Live and Extended were the same. Arent they listed as the same through twonk?
 

Kannkor

Ogre
The only thing I can think of, is it's related to animation/ingame graphics. I run 1 toon on an older computer, a Core2 2.4ghz with 2GB of ram, when I use that computer at raids, with Ogre, depending on the fight in the zone, I can get down to around 8 FPS, but other fights/zones are fine.

I'll see if profiling is fixed with Innerspace, if so I can have you run that and see if it shows anything (it's basically information about all the commands that are run, and how much time it takes to execute them etc).
 
I just updated and loaded a toon on my backup computer that I never use and noticed I had 60 fps before loading ogrebot, and 34 after. This is not in combat, just standing in my guild hall on my dirge. I unchecked everything on the settings page and the fps jumped up to ~55 fps. After going through and enabling every option one by one, I noticed no significant decrease in fps until I selected the following:

-Loot Corpses/Chests (This alone dropped be down to ~38 fps, that's a ~17 fps drop)
-Priority tab(NEW) (This dropped me ~5 fps, only thing on priority tab is sonic barrier. If the entry is set to one target[tank for example] rather than scanning the entire group's health, the loss is <1 fps)
-Auto Target when Hated (Dropped me 5fps. I don't use this option anyway)

With my normal dirge settings selected without the above three things checked I only drop down to ~49 fps on my backup computer. Like said in a previous post, I only notice major fps loss/performance issues on my main computer when I'm in a SG PQ with so many players pets and mobs around me.

On a healer on that computer, since the heals and priority tab are more filled out, I noticed the following drops in addition to the ones from above:

-Heals (Lost ~8 fps with 9 heal triggers on the heal tab)
-Priority tab(NEW) (This dropped me a total of ~10 fps with every heal/cure scanning group health/detriments rather than individuals)


Summary: On crappier computers, any entry on any tab that is scanning group or raid health/detriments for heals/cures results in a much higher load on the computer which reduces the fps. Also, the Loot Corpses/Chests option, which was only enabled on my dirge anyway due to disarm, bogs down a crappier computer as well.


Edit: The above FPS numbers were from only one toon being loaded on that computer. Since it's a backup computer and the servers just went down, I didn't test fps with my"normal" ogre settings with multiple toons loaded. Though, judging from the drops in fps on one toon not in combat, multiple toons on that computer in combat probably would drop each toon below 10 fps easily with my main computer's "normal" ogre settings.
 
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Kannkor

Ogre
I just updated and loaded a toon on my backup computer that I never use and noticed I had 60 fps before loading ogrebot, and 34 after. This is not in combat, just standing in my guild hall on my dirge. I unchecked everything on the settings page and the fps jumped up to ~55 fps. After going through and enabling every option one by one, I noticed no significant decrease in fps until I selected the following:

-Loot Corpses/Chests (This alone dropped be down to ~38 fps, that's a ~17 fps drop)
-Priority tab(NEW) (This dropped me ~5 fps, only thing on priority tab is sonic barrier. If the entry is set to one target[tank for example] rather than scanning the entire group's health, the loss is <1 fps)
-Auto Target when Hated (Dropped me 5fps. I don't use this option anyway)

With my normal dirge settings selected without the above three things checked I only drop down to ~49 fps on my backup computer. Like said in a previous post, I only notice major fps loss/performance issues on my main computer when I'm in a SG PQ with so many players pets and mobs around me.

On a healer on that computer, since the heals and priority tab are more filled out, I noticed the following drops in addition to the ones from above:

-Heals (Lost ~8 fps with 9 heal triggers on the heal tab)
-Priority tab(NEW) (This dropped me a total of ~10 fps with every heal/cure scanning group health/detriments rather than individuals)


Summary: On crappier computers, any entry on any tab that is scanning group or raid health/detriments for heals/cures results in a much higher load on the computer which reduces the fps. Also, the Loot Corpses/Chests option, which was only enabled on my dirge anyway due to disarm, bogs down a crappier computer as well.


Edit: The above FPS numbers were from only one toon being loaded on that computer. Since it's a backup computer and the servers just went down, I didn't test fps with my"normal" ogre settings with multiple toons loaded. Though, judging from the drops in fps on one toon not in combat, multiple toons on that computer in combat probably would drop each toon below 10 fps easily with my main computer's "normal" ogre settings.
This is GREAT information. I can use this as a starting point of what to change.
I'll play around with some things and see what I come up with.
 

Kannkor

Ogre
Following changes will be in Patch 61

-Loot Corpses/Chests (This alone dropped be down to ~38 fps, that's a ~17 fps drop)
-- Tweaked Lootcorpses/chests code. Now exists the routine when distance is > 20. Largest improvements will be seen here when dealing with heavily populated areas (guild halls and PQs).
-- Note: Looting only happened when you didn't have a valid kill target, so this gain is more an out of combat gain/between fight gain.

Worth noting:
-Auto Target when Hated (Dropped me 5fps. I don't use this option anyway)
-- This does nothing if you have a target (yourself, another player, an NPC, etc).

There is very little I can do about scanning the group for heals/cures etc. It simply takes processing power to check peoples health/detrimentals between every spell to see if they need it. I'll look over it to see if I can prioritize any checks to exit routines sooner. I don't expect much/any gain in this area.
 
Following changes will be in Patch 61

-Loot Corpses/Chests (This alone dropped be down to ~38 fps, that's a ~17 fps drop)
-- Tweaked Lootcorpses/chests code. Now exists the routine when distance is > 20. Largest improvements will be seen here when dealing with heavily populated areas (guild halls and PQs).
-- Note: Looting only happened when you didn't have a valid kill target, so this gain is more an out of combat gain/between fight gain.

Worth noting:
-Auto Target when Hated (Dropped me 5fps. I don't use this option anyway)
-- This does nothing if you have a target (yourself, another player, an NPC, etc).

There is very little I can do about scanning the group for heals/cures etc. It simply takes processing power to check peoples health/detrimentals between every spell to see if they need it. I'll look over it to see if I can prioritize any checks to exit routines sooner. I don't expect much/any gain in this area.
Thanks for looking into it. I really don't experience much lag on my main computer, where I normally have 6 toons loaded up, so the processing power required for checking group/raid members' health and # of detriments must be more than enough. For those that this does affect( i.e. my backup computer, or bob_the_builder, etc.), setting scans on only certain party members should cut down on the lag, rather than using "grouponly" as the target since it seems there is nothing else that can be done to maximize efficiency of the scan functions.
 

bob_the_builder

Well-Known Member
When you check it, open task manager and choose "always on top" then click on the EQ2 window. Good chance your proc will max out.

Also, how are you looking at your proc usage? Make sure you click on Performance so you can see the cores being used. Otherwise you are using 25% of all CPU power. So if you had 4 cores, 25% is 1 core being used with 3 idle.
Only one of the Procs is actually showing 100% utilization, the other 3 show 25%

Total CPU Process shows as 25%. If I check my Performance, only 1 Proc is really doing anything. I checked "proc -list" and it shows all 4 CPUs.
 

bob_the_builder

Well-Known Member
Ok, this might be something.

When OGRE is running only 1 of the 4 Procs does anything. I setup OGRE in a x4 Raid and waited for the lag/stutter to hit. Opened the Task Manager and watched as Proc 1-3 sat at nearly 5% while Proc 4 was at 100%. I then closed OGRE and watched as Proc 1-3 slowly climbed up to match Proc 4 at around 50-60%

I was reading through Innerspace notes and noticed 1.10 as a full re-write.

I am going to back rev to 1.09 and try Innerspace and OGRE see if my Procs all work.
 

Kannkor

Ogre
Ok, this might be something.

When OGRE is running only 1 of the 4 Procs does anything. I setup OGRE in a x4 Raid and waited for the lag/stutter to hit. Opened the Task Manager and watched as Proc 1-3 sat at nearly 5% while Proc 4 was at 100%. I then closed OGRE and watched as Proc 1-3 slowly climbed up to match Proc 4 at around 50-60%

I was reading through Innerspace notes and noticed 1.10 as a full re-write.

I am going to back rev to 1.09 and try Innerspace and OGRE see if my Procs all work.
Are you running only 1 eq2 session? Or more than 1?
 

Kannkor

Ogre
I couldnt back rev Innerspace from the 1.09 installer.. it just auto updated on first run.

1 client per computer when I was looking at Task Manager but with the EQ2 client in the foreground, right
Right.. EQ2 doesn't really use multiple cores. EQ2 does most (or all) of it's shit on 1 core, and since isxeq2 is hooked into that eq2 session, it can only run on that 1 core also.

Amadeus updated something with todays patch that I think can help reduce lag on slower machines (machines a proc speed of under 2.6ghz). However it's a pretty large change so it will take me a while ( could be a few weeks ) to code and implement it. I have to finish a few items before hand.
 

bob_the_builder

Well-Known Member
Well this time I downloaded Innerspace 1.09 and it auto updated to 1.11. Previously I had installed a 1.10 or soemthing and let it patch.

Anyways, log in this morning to do some crap and I'm pegging 60 FPS (past 9-14 days has been 24-30). If I click to the desktop I notice my FPS going to 24-30FPS... This seems right. Back to the client and it's 60fps.

Also thinking back I remember my other machine used to run 3 -4 clients fine, but after swapping clients (alt-tab after several hours of game play) sometimes they seemed 'stuck' in the background even though they were a foreground client.... that make sense?

I remember telling my wife a few weeks back, like right before we noticed huge issues in raids, that our clients didnt seem different in foreground or background. Typically the front client is smooth to view and the other clients (usually in a smaller window) seem to frame; but that's ok, that's the way it is supposed to be. But I think I recall telling her that it didn't seem right lately. Anyways, I'm going to test x4 raid tonight, but Im going to chaulk this off to an innerspace problem.

Ill chime in tonight but I have really high expectations right now.
 

bob_the_builder

Well-Known Member
Well I havent really done much lately, havent played in like 5 days .. but did a raid today and never had any stutter.. just ran 1 toon on a box but never dropped below 30 fps.

Thx all
 
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