Priority Tab Casting Dynamics

[mistahmikey]

Ok, I am trying to fine tune some of my cast orders. ATM, I am focused on my defiler. So, I am looking at the spell Ancient Shroud, which puts up ward and, with AA, does a heal. It's target is a group or raid friend, has a 4.3 second recast, and a 30 second duration.

Currently, it is set up in the Priority tab to only cast this on the Tank as a Combat spell. After playing around with the spell a bit, I determined that it actually can be maintained on more than one toon at a time. With such a short recast time but long effect duration, I figured it would be a good idea to spread it around a bit more. So, I tried the following. I changed the spell being cast on the Tank to Maintained , and I added another entry right behind it to cast on GroupOnly/Maintained (because, presumably, this would give priority to casting it on the Tank before anyone else in the group.) I assumed the second entry would cause the spell to be cast on someone other than the tank in the group if it was in effect on the tank, and even later, when the spell is currently active on the tank and another toon, yet another toon would be chosen as the target. Seems to me it would be easy to have this in effect on 4 toons simultaneously.

However, the spell is never cast on anyone else. It is only cast on the Tank, and that's it. So obviously, I do not understand how the "GroupOnly" target selects its actual target, and it would appear the "Maintained" restriction is applied at the spell level, not the individual toon level, even though the spell could be maintained on multiple toons simulateously.

So, putting aside a debate on the merits of what I want to do with Ancient Shroud, if anyone can tell me if what I desire to do is possible, and how to tweak the spell order to do it, please enlighten me. Since I want to look at a lot of other toons and spells to get the most out of them, I need to better understand the mechanics of how the various tabs cast their spells. I have read the stuff in the Ogre wiki, and while better than nothing, it is understandably terse, and thus hasn't allowed me to glean the fine points of how all the casting tabs and cast states interoperate.

Thanks

 

[Kannkor]

I'm just about to run out the door..

but I suspect Combat doesn't work with GroupOnly... Wouldn't make sense to really.

You could try heals / GroupOnly...

I'll comment about your "use" of it later

 

[pz]

oops nm
10

 

[quan]

maintained

based upon a discussion in another thread...

i dont think you would want to use maintained for a ward... basically by maintaining it your letting it run its full duration and only recasting when it expires.

ideally though on tough fights you want to chain cast wards on your tank because they never make it their full duration and chain casting replenishes the ward back to full. And even if the ward does expire you have another one thats on the verge of being recast.

so really if you want to multiple single ward characters you will want to make this part of your pre-heal and do it through buttons.

 

[insanitywiz]

based upon a discussion in another thread...

i dont think you would want to use maintained for a ward... basically by maintaining it your letting it run its full duration and only recasting when it expires.

ideally though on tough fights you want to chain cast wards on your tank because they never make it their full duration and chain casting replenishes the ward back to full. And even if the ward does expire you have another one thats on the verge of being recast.

so really if you want to multiple single ward characters you will want to make this part of your pre-heal and do it through buttons.

You want to maintain a ward when you are maintaining multiple single target wards on different toons. For many tough raid fights when you are progressing, it's pretty important to keep some of your squishies warded to the gills.

 

[mistahmikey]

Ok, I changed the spell action to Heal, and so I can immediately see what is happening, put the heal% at 100. Now the tank gets warded, as expected; and, for the GroupOnly target, my defiler gets warded. However, noone else gets warded until the spell expires either on my Tank or the defiler. Then, it just reups the ward on those 2 toons again.

Better than the Combat state, but still not what I had hoped for out the the GroupOnly target. I assume I will just need to add more targets for this to work (which came to me as I am typing this, so I will give it a try in a minute.)

As to the merits of doing this specifically with AS, well, I have a tank that is way uber geared, and is a monk to boot, so he is quite hard to damage in the Drunder heroic zones I run. In fact, about the only time I die is when I lose my support troops, not because I go down first. I also haven't tried to get into single group raiding as of yet. In any case, my other toons are not so well geared and take it in the shorts more than I would like. So, I was hoping to spread the ward love around a little more. We shall see...

 

[mistahmikey]

Ok, I added a Me target and a GroupOnly target, but still only the defiler and tank were warded. Adding another target for a specific toon name did cause the ward to be cast on a 3rd toon. Kind of interesting though that the GroupOnly target did not result in another cast, particularly given that it did when the tank was warded - so why not when 2 toons are warded?

So, what I take away from all this is:

1) If the "cast type" is Combat, the spell will only be cast on one toon at a time no matter how many times it appears in the cast order.
2) To have the same spell cast on multiple toons, you must use a Heal "cast type", and have an entry for each toon that should receive it. Further, the spell will not be cast again on any toon that currently has the effect (like the Maintained state I believe) even if the recast timer has expired.

Correct?

 

[insanitywiz]

What, exactly, are you going for? For it to toss a ward on the tank + a random groupmember? If so, why? Or are you trying to toss a ward on the tank + specific groupmembers? If so, then the only way to do that is by name/alias.

 

[mistahmikey]

ATM, "what exactly I am going for" is to understand the details of how the Priority Tab cast targets work. In particular, I wanted to understand the fine print as to how the GroupOnly target works.

For example, suppose I wanted to do the following:

1) Always cast AS on the Tank first
2) Cast AS on any other toon that current does not have the AS effect.

At first I was thinking I could do this by using two entries - One specicially targetting the tank, the other targetting GroupOnly. Then, I figured incorrectly, as many toons as could possibly have the ward on at the same time would receive it.

Now I realize I must have an entry for each toon I wish to simultaneously have AS in effect. No biggie, just wanted to understand how to do such a thing. Many may think this is stupid to do with AS specifically, but that is not what I was worried about, as I stated in my first post about all this.

 

[Kannkor]

Combat isn't designed for "GroupOnly", if it wasn't annoying to change, I'd just hide the option when Combat is selected... Which I may consider doing...

Do the following:

Combat - AS - Tankname - Maintained
Combat - AS - GroupMemberName - Maintained
Combat - AS - GroupMemberName2 - Maintained
etc etc


Now, keep in mind, if your tanks ward is used up prior, it will be recast on him first.

Assuming everyone is in combat, all 3 should get a ward. If not, then it's a bug.

 

[amyglyn]

Imho do this:

Set it to cast the single target ward on your tank. I have two quite different presets for my defiler, one for easy zones and one for hard zones.

1. Set it to type heal, and 100%. It will then re-cast the ward when the ward drops off your tank. Set the group ward to also be a heal, cast at 100%, on your tank. This will protect group and tank. Your shammy will re-cast it when it drops. This has the nice effect of having it up before the pulls, as well. So it will try to keep it up, but in easy zones your shammy will have a lot of time in between to DPS, as the wards may last a long time if your tank isn't getting hit. I do this in Rime zones, TOFS, Ice Shard keep. Or if you have a monk that doesn't get hit, grumbles.

2. For hard zones, set it to combat and cast on tank. It will then cast on your tank over and over and over as soon as it is up. This will result in your tank being warded constantly, protecting against as much damage as possible. Do the same with the group ward. (IE, it will cast before it drops completely, resulting in more protection). Downside is your shammy won't have much time to DPS. If you have awful cast speed this might not work so well for you. Mine still gets to do a good amount of DPS, keeps up debuffs, and casts maelstrom, nightmare, and some other dps spells. Pro tip: when in healing/defensive stance, use the dogdog offensive buff.

3. Set wild accretion to heal when someone in group hits between 70 and 90% (depending on difficulty of what you're running and squishiness of group). It'll bring everyone up into the green. This should come before single target heals because it will result in safety for the tank as well.

3. Expiriment and set the other wards, death prevent, and single target heals (only use the fast cast one, don't even put the big heal in the tab at all imho) to what works for you.

Group ward and wild accretion should be enough to protect the group, I wouldn't use single target ward on anyone other than the tank in normal circumstances.

 

[Kannkor]

Imho do this:

Set it to cast the single target ward on your tank. I have two quite different presets for my defiler, one for easy zones and one for hard zones.

1. Set it to type heal, and 100%. It will then re-cast the ward when the ward drops off your tank. Set the group ward to also be a heal, cast at 100%, on your tank. This will protect group and tank. Your shammy will re-cast it when it drops. This has the nice effect of having it up before the pulls, as well. So it will try to keep it up, but in easy zones your shammy will have a lot of time in between to DPS, as the wards may last a long time if your tank isn't getting hit. I do this in Rime zones, TOFS, Ice Shard keep. Or if you have a monk that doesn't get hit, grumbles.

I would never, ever suggest putting anything as a heal and 100%. That means it'll cast all the time. While sitting in a guild hall, while AFK on the moon etc. This exact behaviour can be achived with setting it as a Combat ability and using the [M]aintained option.
If you want to "pre-ward", simply have your tank turn his auto attack on prior to engaging (I target myself and turn on auto attack).

If there is something else I'm missing that makes the heal option better, let me know and I can fix what is wrong - but spamming spells while outside of combat is just silly.

 

[amyglyn]

I would never, ever suggest putting anything as a heal and 100%. That means it'll cast all the time. While sitting in a guild hall, while AFK on the moon etc. This exact behaviour can be achived with setting it as a Combat ability and using the [M]aintained option.
If you want to "pre-ward", simply have your tank turn his auto attack on prior to engaging (I target myself and turn on auto attack).

If there is something else I'm missing that makes the heal option better, let me know and I can fix what is wrong - but spamming spells while outside of combat is just silly.

Haha, yeah, the maintained option is probably better...honestly what I do is just pause it...i never have it on outside of instances, anyway. If i'm out and about outdoors, or in guild hall, or whatever, bot is always paused...*shrug*...using maintained for that makes more sense though, I just didn't think of that, lol.

 

[mistahmikey]

Good stuff! Thanks to all who responded - very helpful.

 

[mistahmikey]

What you suggested here works great. However, I have noticed an oddity.

I set up AS to cast on my tank, two healers, and enchanter. Ogre happily maintains this spell on all four at once.

I tried the same thing with my Inq's Penance, which has almost the exact same casting parameters as AS, but provides a heal instead of a ward. Have it set up in the Priority tab exactly the same as my Def's AS.

For some reason, I can never get more than 3 toons at a time to have the Penance effect on them. Not that this is the end of the world, but kinda strange. Could it be an EQ2 bug?

 

[Kannkor]

What you suggested here works great. However, I have noticed an oddity.

I set up AS to cast on my tank, two healers, and enchanter. Ogre happily maintains this spell on all four at once.

I tried the same thing with my Inq's Penance, which has almost the exact same casting parameters as AS, but provides a heal instead of a ward. Have it set up in the Priority tab exactly the same as my Def's AS.

For some reason, I can never get more than 3 toons at a time to have the Penance effect on them. Not that this is the end of the world, but kinda strange. Could it be an EQ2 bug?

What happens after 3 are maintained..?

 

[Ardon]

3 or more Penance's

I'm maintaining about 7 penance's during raids without any issues. Normally I'm running it on all group members + the main tank. I have gone up to 9 under special circumstance and have seen them all being maintained and showing up in my active buff windows.

When things first kick off Ogre isn't going to toss up all 6 - 9 penance's it's going to do other things but if you're wanting to maximize this I would suggest turning off any Combat and Named Combat tabs, which I often due when performing group healing in a raid. You may also want to adjust your priorities around. Below is a copy of my raid setup for priorities. With this setup I am always #1 on cures and top 3 in heals during raids. Also when you're looking this over please know that all of my Alias's start with an "_" because it places them all together and makes them easier to find. I'm not sharing the rest of the file because it's pretty much like the example config.

<Set Name="Priority">
<Set Name="1">
<Setting Name="#">1</Setting>
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Cure Curse</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">GroupOnly</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Cure</Setting>
<Setting Name="__Disabled">TRUE</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="2">
<Setting Name="#">3</Setting>
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Cleansing of the Soul</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">GroupOnly</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Cure</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="3">
<Setting Name="#">3</Setting>
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Resolute Flagellant</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">GroupOnly</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Cure</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="4">
<Setting Name="#">20</Setting>
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Redemption</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">_Tank</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Heal</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="5">
<Setting Name="#">30</Setting>
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Radiance</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">GroupOnly</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Heal</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="6">
<Setting Name="#">30</Setting>
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Divine Guidance</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">_Tank</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Heal</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="7">
<Setting Name="#">1</Setting>
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Cure</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">GroupOnly</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Cure</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="8">
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Divine Recovery</Setting>
<Setting Name="M">TRUE</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">_Me</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Combat</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="9">
<Setting Name="#">40</Setting>
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Evidence of Faith</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">GroupOnly</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Heal</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="10">
<Setting Name="#">80</Setting>
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Alleviation</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">GroupOnly</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Heal</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="11">
<Setting Name="#">90</Setting>
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Ministration</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">GroupOnly</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Heal</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="12">
<Setting Name="#">70</Setting>
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Fanatical Healing</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">GroupOnly</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Heal</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="13">
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Chilling Invigoration</Setting>
<Setting Name="M">TRUE</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">_MainTank</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Combat</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="14">
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Penance</Setting>
<Setting Name="M">TRUE</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">_Tank</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Combat</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="15">
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Penance</Setting>
<Setting Name="M">TRUE</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">_Me</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Combat</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="16">
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Penance</Setting>
<Setting Name="M">TRUE</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">_MainTank</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Combat</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="17">
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Malevolent Diatribe</Setting>
<Setting Name="M">TRUE</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">_Me</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Combat</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="18">
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Penance</Setting>
<Setting Name="M">TRUE</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">_Other1</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Combat</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="19">
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Penance</Setting>
<Setting Name="M">TRUE</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">_Other2</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Combat</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="20">
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Penance</Setting>
<Setting Name="M">TRUE</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">_Other3</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Combat</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="21">
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Penance</Setting>
<Setting Name="M">TRUE</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">_Other4</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Combat</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="22">
<Setting Name="#">1</Setting>
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Cure</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">Raid</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Cure</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="23">
<Setting Name="#">60</Setting>
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Ministration</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">Raid</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Heal</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="24">
<Setting Name="#">40</Setting>
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Fanatical Healing</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">Raid</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Heal</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="25">
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Conversion of the Soul</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">GroupOnly</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Res</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="26">
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Reforming Soul</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">GroupOnly</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Res</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="27">
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Revive</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">GroupOnly</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Res</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="28">
<Setting Name="#">1</Setting>
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Cure Curse</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">Raid</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Cure</Setting>
<Setting Name="__Disabled">TRUE</Setting>
</Set>
<Set Name="29">
<Setting Name="__SourceName">Holy Shield</Setting>
<Setting Name="Target">_Tank</Setting>
<Setting Name="Type">Combat</Setting>
</Set>
</Set>

 

[mistahmikey]

What happens after 3 are maintained..?

Well, they expire and are recast as they expire. I think all 4 toons are in the mix, but only 3 are ever up at once, but I would have to verify this.