Apparent Changes in SoE Policy

[Pygar]

I don't like to make panic posts, and please don't regard this as one. However, I and others have observed changes in SoE policy that affects this community.

First and foremost. What you do here is grounds for banning, regardless of how carefully you do it. You bot with the implicit risk of getting banned. If and when you lose your accounts, there should be no remorse.

For many, many years now there has been a policy at SoE that if you didn't disturb the community, no one sought you out to remove you from the game. This meant instances and off the beaten path places were considered by many to be a free haven for botting. Crafting for 30+ hours was a non issue as no one really pays attention in craft zones.

Previously, GM's hands were tied. They couldn't log in and go seek out botters, they had to have a petition from a player to investigate issues. So as long as you went un-noticed and no one /petitioned you, you had nearly free reign.

Recently SOE acquired a MMO commerce company and has been integrating their system into SoE games. Pretensibly, it was announced it was only going to replace the exchange system. One of the key aspects of this 3rd party application was it had hooks into game systems and could identify real players selling things vs farmers, and could easily identify and remove farmers from the system.

Little information is available on exactly what this looks for and how it works, but its fairly clear to some of us that some aspects of this system have been put on all servers. And a change to GM policy has been made.

All I've said so far is fairly well known and documented, from here out, it gets more into my suspicions based upon the information I have gathered personally and collected from others, and a fair amount of guess work.

I believe that GM's have been unbound by the /petition requirement and are now actively investigating for botters. I don't think its free reign, but I do believe they are getting suspicion reports from this new software and they have free reign to investigate those station names, observe them, and take action.

I believe these reports are based upon account activity over time, I don't know if its x /day, /week or whatever. Its quite possible it involves other things than time bound usage, but time is clearly identifiable so far.

Here are some samples of what have happened so far:
Small groups running in instances unattended less than 8 hours old have been banned.

Small groups running attended have been banned.

Solo players running unattended in instances have been banned.

Some groups were banned while not even online.

attended solo bots have been visited by GM's in an instance.

Now, for all of these cases, the accounts in question had significant ocurances of long play sessions. 12+ hours multiple days / wk, sometimes 20+ hour sessions.

Now, I believe these actions are being taken to crack down on farmers, not to seek out botters as a whole, we're just collateral targets, and some of us have usage paterns that are going to get profiled with the farmers, hell some of us are probably farmers.

I have no specific recommendations for anyone about profiling, and what to do to avoid it. Even if I knew what was the safety region, I wouldn't share it, as its not my intention to aid farmers in their work.

I make this post because its an observed change in game policy that can and will affect many users of this forum. I feel I owe to the community to communicate this change to others so they can make qualified judgments about what they are and are not comfortable doing, and to help gauge the risk of some actions.

-Pygar

 

[Pygar]

Oops, left out one other component of this 3rd party system. Profile data gained about farmers / botters that are banned from one company is going to be shared with all partner companies.

I don't know how many are joining in on this, but I foresee a day that a ban in EQ2 would get you a ban in Lotro, wow, conan, and other games too.

There are of course steps to take to avoid this, but be aware those steps are likely to become necessary.

 

[Amadeus]

This is all good and proper to be posted. But, before everyone has a fit, be sure that you read everything he wrote carefully, especially this:

Now, for all of these cases, the accounts in question had significant ocurances of long play sessions. 12+ hours multiple days / wk, sometimes 20+ hour sessions.

Now, I believe these actions are being taken to crack down on farmers, not to seek out botters as a whole, we're just collateral targets...

In other words, if you're sitting at the computer and running scripts to make the playing easier for you (or just using radar and so forth), you're almost assured to be left alone. Heck, even if you afk'd for a little while at a time, you're ok.

However, if you do anything that brings attention to yourself such as:

1. Gaining too much xp in a short period of time.
2. Being online performing the same types of actions in a single place over the course of hours and hours without pause.
3. etc..

Then, you're going to raise a red flag. Period.

So, short answer is that descretion and common sense are the rules of the game. It may be that for a few years SOE has just not cared about cheaters ..and therefore everyone has become bold and complacent. However, if you follow the simple advice of "be smart and be unnoticed" you'll probably be just fine.

 

[wired203]

Perhaps it's a good time to enable the stealth option in innerspace just as a extra saftey cushion. I'll let the fiance know about this too. There goes my intention to try to make a weaponsmith 1-80 in a week lol.

Has there been any indication of any warden like activity with the client?

 

[Pygar]

No, nothing warden like at all.

This is purely driven from this 3rd party app installed at SoE's location. It has some sort of metrics and pattern analysis that it uses to identify suspect lists that GM's are able to investigate without the needed /petition that used to be required.

Everything Ama said should be taken to heart. I don't think this affects a large portion of us, but I think I'd do my weaponsmith in 2 weeks rather than 1

 

[kumpel100]

2 of my accounts got banned (in VG) for just using (speed hack in normal speed mode) never in PvP or on public locations only for harvesting sessions no longer then 3hrs (never AFK)
and i have use the zone teleport hack never on public locations or in pvp.

the reason was:
a GM have /tell me with something like "you running/harvesting and didnt respond to my tell you are a botter" BOOM both my accounts was shut down..
i was not able to read the full /tell while there was not enough time...
after i got the tell and the shut down was maximum 20 sek.
also not enough time to read it complete.

my main Account with no mark got perma banned
my second account with 1 suspesion (7days) for speed and teleport hack got perma banned too.

also they have told me how many times i zone hacked ( 136 times the curred month when it was happend).

so i say they looking for all kind of botter/cheater/hacker not only for farmes.

P.s i bot/cheat/hack/dupe since 15 years in every mmorgh but never got a perma bane bevor..

 

[Multicharacter]

You were probably caught for the speed hacking and not really the same thing Pygar is talking about. Pygar is talking about a rash of bans lately where the person wasn't using anything but the base ISXEQ2 tools; just using them for a longer period of time than most. Nobody knows what time is too much (you have people from 6 hours online at the time a GM came to watch them to 12+ hours being banned.) The GMs aren't required to send tells anymore though it seems. The way it used to be was somebody complains, GM sends you a tell, you don't reply, you got banned. Now though nobody has to put a complaint in about you, the GM does not send you a tell, observes you while invisible, and will even ban you without sending a single tell.

Keep in mind we're discussing Everquest here, not Vanguard though. You might have been confused because EQ2 is back on top where it used to be in the forum list page.

 

[Amadeus]

Kumpel -- you were ONLY running isxvg, right? Not any other programs that are out there?

And -- that was VG besides. ISXVG had speed and teleport hacks in it and that was what got people. ISXEQ2 did not have those.

I have a personal speed hack for ISXEQ2 and I have gotten suspended for it recently (I was using it a LOT). So, I think they're focusing on the "real" hacks in all their games (like speed and teleporting.) Honestly, I'm not sure (in regards to eq2) if it was someone reporting me speeding or if they found out by another method.

EQ2 has the biggest whiners and shit on it of any game I've ever played. The server channels are CONSTANTLY spamming with people accusing others of speed hacking and stuff. It's like every player is a damn republican wanting to regulate other peoples' lives.

 

[kumpel100]

yeah ama i used an other teleport hack tool.

 

[Amadeus]

yeah ama i used an other teleport hack tool.

Therein lies the problem. My methodology is quite different than the other immature shit that's out there.

Most of the people that I've talked to that were banned admitted to using other products in addition to isxvg.

I have been around a long time -- users are encouraged to avoid other "hacking" products as you'll eventually get burned by them...one way or another.

 

[Multicharacter]

Well, just for the record I ran ISXEQ2 with even the benefits like far reaching vision outdoors and falling damage turned off because I wanted just the pure ability to have something automate things I could do by hand anyway to prevent wrist strain. I got banned in December, bought some new accounts, game cards, new IP address, different email and then a few weeks later I got banned again. "Unauthorized use of third party software". First time I got banned I know the GM didn't try to contact me, he didn't show himself, must have just observed and banned. From my end I was just playing then my clients started closing. (you don't go LD, your EQ client just closes all on its own.) Second banning I had weird things happening but I never thought it was a GM. I logged off because I was frustrated by multiple deaths due to the "weird" behavior of mobs and my guys. (I thought maybe my scripts were malfunctioning or the zone itself) Then I go to log back on and they'd banned not only those guys but another one of my accounts with a totally different game card/email who I hadn't done any botting on and the only connection was I'd given my guy there 1pp to buy some low level armor.

 

[Amadeus]

Multicharacter ....don't you run like a lot of characters at once?

There are a lot of people that have botted full groups to max level without getting banned or even warned. You must have gotten the attention of someone somehow. Perhaps you ganked a GM on their alt account ..hehe.

 

[Snow]

actually.. i can get you guys a lot of underground info of what's going on, i know a lot of the things already that they're going to be implementing.

 

[Multicharacter]

The second time I was banned I was running a full group. It wasn't a PvP server, but back when the policy was the GM had to have you petitioned, and he had to try to talk to you I only had one incidence with a GM. It was back when there was that bug in ISXEQ2 where if you used /face it made your character appear to warp even though on your end nothing looked unusual. The GM observed that, then said in a tell he was going to ban me. Even that was /petition originated though because earlier somebody else had commented that I appeared to be warping to them. (on my end nothing looked wrong, so I didn't know if it was lag or what; wasn't until later we found out it was ISXEQ2 if you remember)

It's been years without a GM so much as trying to talk to me, or any player reporting me for suspicious behavior. Their policy has definitely changed though. The GM is apparently free to do as he pleases with a variety of tactics (things that will just seem "screwy" to you and not immediately make you think "GM!"), and when he decides to ban you he is no longer required to tell you anything. Your client will just close on its own and you'll be at your desktop. Then when you go to log in it'll tell you invalid password.

There seems to be a lag between whatever you do that can flag you and a GM coming to investigate you though. Question is do they have specific times each month they decide to go investigate the reports, or is more of a "when the GMs get free time". The 2nd option opens the door that one defense might be to have an account that is not connected to you in anyway, and all it does is petition asking questions about the newbie part of the game. When the petition is answered quickly it would mean their petition load is light and maybe you should stop your bots. If their petition load increases either they have to hire more GMs or pick what's more important. Answering customers or investigating people as botters.

 

[Pygar]

actually.. i can get you guys a lot of underground info of what's going on, i know a lot of the things already that they're going to be implementing.

Any solid information is appreciated, if you prefer to keep it confidential, email me at pygar@happyhacker.com.

 

[Amadeus]

actually.. i can get you guys a lot of underground info of what's going on, i know a lot of the things already that they're going to be implementing.

It's true -- private messages here on the boards to pygar or myself would be nice. It's always best to get the information without them knowing I have it.

 

[badshark]

ok i got banned today no warning put rares on market came back later and couldnt log in said you have been suspended 2/9/8 didnt shut down both of my accounts and does anyone know how long yer suspended? didnt say banned just suspended gonna try to get to bottom of it on monday due to closed on weekends and all i use is isxeq2 no other programs any info would be awesome but if they are gonna bust everyone i guess i will either stop botting or just blow off eq2 pretty damn lame tho i pay my monthly dues leave me be sony is getting just like wow

 

[Amadeus]

Be interesting to see what they say ...if all you were doing was botting and they didn't ban you WHILE botting, I'm curious how they will justify it to you.

 

[Multicharacter]

ok i got banned today no warning put rares on market came back later and couldnt log in said you have been suspended 2/9/8 didnt shut down both of my accounts and does anyone know how long yer suspended? didnt say banned just suspended gonna try to get to bottom of it on monday due to closed on weekends and all i use is isxeq2 no other programs any info would be awesome but if they are gonna bust everyone i guess i will either stop botting or just blow off eq2 pretty damn lame tho i pay my monthly dues leave me be sony is getting just like wow

Did you talk to somebody who told you that you have been suspended or are you going off the account management page? That page will say SUSPENDED when you are banned. (if you click the word it gives a definition of suspended to them, and says when they use the word "suspended" they might mean banned - aka to them as long term suspension, or what we'd consider suspension to mean - short term suspension.)

 

[badshark]

going off the account management page if they did ban me while botting which i dont think so cuz i put my stuff on market when to gun range to shoot with my friend came back to log on and when i put in my password its just says yer account has been suspended will know more tomm when i call them, if it is banned im done screw em i will cancel other account then back to neverwinter nights i guess

 

[Multicharacter]

How many rares has your character harvested? Pygar's post says he believes they're trying to target people who farm for things, and just hitting us as side damage. You say you put some rares up for sale, then came back later to find you'd been banned, (similar to my 2nd ban where they didn't say a thing, I'd logged off, only to find myself banned when trying to log back on) is there any chance a GM was watching you before you logged? Anything unusual happen to you during your last harvesting session? They seem to watch you - decide to ban you, without contacting you, then they do an investigation into every account you've even given or received anything (even 1pp) from, figure out who else they can ban, then ban all the accounts at once. This means a GM could have been watching you harvest, decided to ban you, and you ended up logging off before he finished looking into all your past history and actually banning you. Then of course you came back, and found yourself banned.

 

[ownagejoo]

Also wondering if you use myprices to put your stuff up on the market? I know this is all speculation, I am just trying to gather some data.

Ownagejoo

 

[Amadeus]

Pretty sure it's not myprices ..however, yea, if you put up 15 rares for sale all at once ...that could be a red flag....

 

[Pygar]

We're speculating an aweful lot here.

Badshark, does your account have the long session times I discussed before? Did you adventure for 4-5 hours then run harvest for another 6? What does your usage profile look like?

I would like to first rule out that you were investigated by being identified as a potential farmer from usage times before we speculate about anything else.

For what its worth. When you get banned while in game, you immediately drop to desktop. This rarely happens as quickly as the GM seeing you, deciding to ban you, then hitting a button. Instead some investigative work is done, other possible accounts are identified, its submitted to a lead GM, he runs a script and all those accounts get banned at the exact same moment.

For suspensions, the same exit to desktop is true. The only way to know if you are banned or suspended is by logging in with the patcher. The patcher will communicate which of the 2 it is. If you want details, you have to call the CSR number to find out. The station manager always says suspended regardless of which it is. If you hover on the ? next to your subscription, it will say that it could mean either thing.

I've also not heard from 'snow', but am interested in any data. I suspect they'll implement more reports from live gamer to investigate on based upon the success or failure of the current data they are working off of.

 

[badshark]

i did put up 56 rares and my times i am sure a very long so ifi i am banned well i can only blame myself i am definately making my rounds rofl first wow now eq2 rofl mebbe i need to get a life gonna call csr and get the final word so stay tuned

 

[badshark]

ok i got a 7 day suspension for using an afk harvest bot wheeee so its not the end of the world for now guess i better be a lil more careful now that im on there radar

 

[wired203]

Chalk another up to "Long Play Time" then, hey badshark for future referrence once your off their radar, there is an option in the harvester to set a time to harvest, say 2 hours or so and then logoff. May help in the future. It's minute based and I have used it in the past to harvest for a bit before as I go to sleep.

So far only seems to be time based checks which is understandable to remove the farmer element everyone complains about (cept the farmers of course lol)

 

[Pygar]

Just to keep focus here. The significant change is it no longer requires a /petition to get investigated, significant activity on the station account (not just one toon) will get you checked out.

The other big change is, it appears they don't try to chat with you durring the investigation unless they feel its needed. They've been instructed on things to look for to spot the bots via observation alone. While looking like a bot in itself isn't enough to get banned without contact, having significant station account activity AND looking like a bot is enough to eat a ban.

You Myprices users. I would NOT run it auto looping more than 8 hours / day tops, if not less. I'm fairly sure this will at least trigger the activity usage flag, however they might not have been trained in how to observe it, yet.

Pygar

 

[Busygal]

While looking like a bot in itself isn't enough to get banned without contact, having significant station account activity AND looking like a bot is enough to eat a ban.

Pygar

What exactly is Significant Station Account Activity?

 

[Pygar]

Actively using the account for more hours than the most dedicated user does.

I don't want to try to define it, as what might be a safe margin today might not be a safe margin next week.

If I was them, I would start at x level and investigate, if I'm getting 95%+ positive hits, I'd ratched down another 10% activity time and check again. And keep repeating this process till I found the fall off point.

I could speculate at what that number is, but I'd urge you to make your own judgment. Cause if we all suddenly switch to the same profile, it may only serve to our detriment.

 

[Busygal]

Another thing I am worried about is doing rush order writs with the bot... it is quite obvious the way that it moves the char (not to mention it hails the writ giver TWICE) that something is wonky. All a GM needs to do is sit in a TS instance and watch for people who consistantly hail the writ giver twice and moves oddly to get banned. Any chance we can get this looked into so that it isn't quite so obvious?

 

[mycroft]

Myprices for the nervous

Personally I've never had any problems but....

New version currently being worked on..

New toggle option to run a more 'natural' scan.

1. Randomly picks items from your list to scan instead of going down the list 1 by 1..
2. Pauses between items using random amounts of time. (3-5 seconds)
3. The pause between scans will not be exactly whats set if you run constant scans , it will vary either longer or shorter than the time set by a certain %.

The scan will take longer of course , but hopefully will help those of you with a more nervous disposition.

 

[Pygar]

Mycroft,

Your changes will make the bot harder to observe and is a good change.

However, I still recommend that no one run it for great lengths of time, as this does cause your account to show as 'active' and will eventually get you investigated. Now if all you are doing is running the store, possibly this wont be identifiable and you will go un noticed. However, thats skating a very fine line.

My advice is make the changes, but don't run anything over an excessive time window.

 

[badshark]

AMEN i have learned and will be from now on cautious

 

[gp1001]

Actively using the account for more hours than the most dedicated user does.

I don't want to try to define it, as what might be a safe margin today might not be a safe margin next week.

If I was them, I would start at x level and investigate, if I'm getting 95%+ positive hits, I'd ratched down another 10% activity time and check again. And keep repeating this process till I found the fall off point.

I could speculate at what that number is, but I'd urge you to make your own judgment. Cause if we all suddenly switch to the same profile, it may only serve to our detriment.

So would I have much to worry about if I am just logged in and sitting there waiting for requests for ports? I have the portbot setup so it only responds to certain people and she isnt "Actively" in use that often.

 

[Pygar]

So would I have much to worry about if I am just logged in and sitting there waiting for requests for ports? I have the portbot setup so it only responds to certain people and she isnt "Actively" in use that often.

I don't want to give anyone a false sense of security, but from what I've gathered, this will go un-noticed. I don't believe it will draw a flag. And if it did, I don't believe they are trained to recognize any of its behaviors.

These actions are all about cutting down on farmers and sellers. A bot opening ports from tells isn't exactly on their concern list.

 

[cybris]

Yep SOE has declared war on Farmers in fact they are handing over operation of Station Exchange to Live Gamer. Live Gamer Exchange will also be used for non-SoE games as well. They will be able to link accounts between games that have fraudulent activity on them.

Note: this only affects people who farm bot on Station exchange servers to sell for real world cash.

Can read more here.

http://help.station.sony.com/cgi-bin/soe.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=18636

and here is the letter from John Smedly
http://stationblog.wordpress.com/

 

[Pygar]

Cybris,

My point in the orriginal post is, they've done some level of integration with ALL servers.

The exchange portion of it will of course only be placed on exchange servers. However the anti-farmer technology is being used on all servers.

 

[krehldar]

The Original Goal....

The original goal of the exchange servers if everyone remembers, on top of giving those that wanted to participate in sales and buying of in game items and decrease the immense customer service problem was to decrease the amount of farming that took place on regular servers.
Two things happened that put a monkey wrench in the spokes so to speak of this attempt. One, those same people that were screaming and yelling at the top of their lungs about how atrocious the action of SOE doing such a thing was and it made them want to stop playing all together are the same ones that are buying from the farmers or causing their game mates to stay around and do it the same in secret in fear of their ridicule.
The second thing and probably one of the larger things. They never managed to get the foreign users on with the exchange again making a very large market for the farmers, both because they want to buy and sell and a resentment of some towards SOE for not delivering on their promise to them going out of their way to pay them back out of spite. This keeps farming going on all servers, on the regular game servers probably even more so, and most likely more so than the exchange servers.
Those that play on the exchange servers probably are more likely to use the exchange because it is there for them to do without the possibility of getting in trouble. The main reason for those players to buy from the farmers is price as the farmers sell plat at about half of what it goes for on the exchange.
So they may actually be even more aggressive going after the farmers on non exchange servers simply because they don't belong there at all, the players on those servers(some of them) actively stayed on those servers for the explicit reason to keep gaming pure.
Just my half penny worth...doesn't mean much but there it is any how

 

[nyder]

I play the game for 12-16 hours every day. I use craft and eq2bot and eq2harvest alot. I guess the difference is, i don't actually sell the crap i get, i move it to alts.

I even do unattended botting/harvesting all the time, usually while i'm sleeping.

I do try not to run the game for more then 2 days at a time, since i got suspended for that before.

i also talk in chat when i can, so people don't think i'm a bot. not using stupid scripts for that, because it wouldn't take a monkey to catch on to that.

Maybe because i don't really sell crap, besides potions and spellbooks, i'm left alone. Or maybe they got me at the bottem of the list for people to check.

Of course, i'm waiting for the, "you have 24 chars on your account, you must be cheating speech" so i can set them straight on that. =)

Might matter which server your on also, i'm pretty sure none of the people that use is/isx have been hassled, and i know one that them spends most his time botting. on my server that is.

thanks for the heads up.

 

[Amadeus]

I can almost assuredly report that the primary thing that SOE is concerned about right now is speed hacking (which is not included with ISXEQ2.)

They have installed serverside checks and scripts to find those that are using speed hacking and it would be almost impossible to avoid that without a LOT of trial and error and a LOT of luck.

So, if you're only using ISXEQ2 and you're not being stupid in using it, you should be fine perfectly fine.

 

[fmsn]

Funny thing is this: Speed hacking is the easiest way to get busted. Why? Its the easiest to catch. How? You can set up the 'server' of the MMO you are playing on to watch for those people going faster then normally allowed, baring the speed for mounts. Freeshards do this to catch speed hackers. It logs when a person has a faster movement rate than normal. Most people that speed hack, can't keep it down to say, the fastest mount in the game. Almost certainly to get seen too.

Teleporting: Same thing. You are at this /loc one second, then a dif /loc the next. Logged -> Banned.

Don't know what the fuss is about. Why not just get there the normal way, anyway? Farm up some plat, buy the fastest mount for all your toons. Hello?

I'm def in trouble if they are judging stuff by the amount of hours you play. I personally don't watch tv, movies on occasion, not into the bar scene anymore, and I'm kinda older so I've had my fair share of fun, so to speak. I spend my money, entertainment funds, I call it, on my computer, internet and games I play. I play as many hours a week as I work, thats 40+ easy. Sometimes in a 5 day period. I've sat on my games for 8/10/12 hours + at a time, depending if I get into the mood and got good stuff going on, ie, groups, loot drops, etc.

Fuck me running sideways if they are going to ban me for playing too much I don't bot when I'm not at the keyboard anyways. I read somewhere, someone loaded isxeq2 up and then unloaded it, then reloaded it so it was in the buffer. If a GM pops in, he can unload it fairly quickly. Seems to be a good idea to me

Keep on truckin

 

[Busygal]

You can unload isx?

 

[Amadeus]

"ext -unload isxeq2" -- Unloads ISXEQ2

"ext isxeq2" -- Loads ISXEQ2

 

[Greythorn]

actually almost everyone can have teleport .. It's called "Call of the Tinkerer" teleports you to a person in your group.

I realize with teleport you can go to any location but would be nice for us muters to be able to have something just like CoTT.

Hmm maybe I will petition SoE

 

[ironape2]

A close friend of mine on Blackburrow said a GM approached her while she was botting a 5 box of level 40's while semi afk. She said that the GM followed her around for awhile and she asked them what they was doing. The GM teleported her and the boxes then asked her why she wasnt looting any of the bodies or chests and how many computers she was using. She said she was leveling some friends characters with her main and didnt need the money so she was leaving the stuff for others to find and open and 3 computers. The GM gave her some speech about the evilness of plat farming and how they are trying to stop it. The GM then teleported her back to the zone she was in and sent her a tell of Happy Botting...

Now take it for what you will but she has never decieved me before. What I get from that is that they dont care so much about the botting if they are not bothering anyone or doing it to gain plat. Also that leaving a trail of bodies and chest accross the zone can draw intrest by a GM. No telling what would of happened if she was afk.

Was this a fluke or one time deal? dunno.

 

[eqcontracts]

Hrm

I dunno if you guys have reviewed LiveGamer Terms of Use, but it might interest you if you play on the exchange servers, or any game that will use LiveGamer.


10. INTEGRITY OF COMPUTER PROGRAMS AND PROCESSES

You expressly consent to Live Gamer scanning your computer’s memory during upgrades and updates to the Services or Software or during any period in which you are on the Site or using the Services or Software solely for purposes of comparison with Live Gamer’s then‑current list of active background processes and/or any other running programs or routines that are in violation of these Terms of Service. LIVE GAMER’S RIGHT TO ACCESS AND USE SUCH INFORMATION FOR THE PURPOSES STATED HEREIN SHALL GOVERN OVER ANY TERMS OF LIVE GAMER’S PRIVACY POLICY.

 

[Pygar]

Yes I did see this, and I would be nervous about using innerspace and live gamer.

 

[coupdegrace]

WTF is Live Gamer?

More important I guess: Why would I want to use it?

 

[wired203]

Live Gamer is the new watchdog for the Exchange servers, since real cash is involved they wanted to make sure there is no cheating going on to make cash.

For now it's to be isolated to the Exchange servers however most of us are keeping a watchfull eye to see if it ever gets implemented on the standard servers.

 

[coupdegrace]

Oh, thanks!

So are these terms and conditions for Live Player something added to the EQ2 terms and conditions? I play on normal servers. I never read the T&C when I launch the patcher but I guess I need to start reading them.

 

[ookami007]

I dunno if you guys have reviewed LiveGamer Terms of Use, but it might interest you if you play on the exchange servers, or any game that will use LiveGamer.


10. INTEGRITY OF COMPUTER PROGRAMS AND PROCESSES

You expressly consent to Live Gamer scanning your computer’s memory during upgrades and updates to the Services or Software or during any period in which you are on the Site or using the Services or Software solely for purposes of comparison with Live Gamer’s then‑current list of active background processes and/or any other running programs or routines that are in violation of these Terms of Service. LIVE GAMER’S RIGHT TO ACCESS AND USE SUCH INFORMATION FOR THE PURPOSES STATED HEREIN SHALL GOVERN OVER ANY TERMS OF LIVE GAMER’S PRIVACY POLICY.

While they manage Live Gamer service, unless their program is running WHILE you play EQ2, then their ToS does NOT give them the right to peek at your computer while running EQ2. The EQ2 ToS would need to be modified to accomodate that, and so far, it hasn't.

Remember, Live Gamer takes care of more than just EQ2.

 

[Pygar]

Live Gamer is the new watchdog for the Exchange servers, since real cash is involved they wanted to make sure there is no cheating going on to make cash.

For now it's to be isolated to the Exchange servers however most of us are keeping a watchfull eye to see if it ever gets implemented on the standard servers.

It is clear to me some aspects of the LG system were installed on all servers back in November. I don't think anything regarding process scanning is happening yet. But they started getting metric data from the early integration. Honestly, that's what triggered the original post on this topic.

It does appear an update to SoE's EULA would have to be made before a process scanner like this could be included.

 

[ookami007]

I read about the metrix data they will be collecting. They will run an analysis trending program on the data and use the collected information to spot "farming" behavior... probably looking at playtime, large transactions, repeatative actions, etc.

 

[Xeus]

Yep.. after 8 years without a single warning, I got a 7 day suspension on 3 accounts.. funny thing, only 2 were logged in at the time and they were just sitting afk, not doing a single thing at the time. Whatever they are using to determine bot activity, it's no longer a result of witnessing activity.. it's trending or something similar. I had been running writs endlessly for weeks, no farming or anything, just status questing.. seems this trending software they have is working well and is enough grounds for banishment. My toons were in evil and good zones, spread across the continent, so not likely the result of a petition.

Hey, if they don't want my $50 a month, that's cool.. keeping the writs going was more of an addiction they cured me of anyway lol.

 

[Amadeus]

If they were just sitting and AFK ..you should send an email and find out the official word and proof.

And, a 7-day suspension is not even a slap on the wrist it's so light. I'd say after 8 years you have done well with only one 7-day suspension. WoW folks can barely make it a year on an account before it's banned.

 

[pz]

.. and they were just sitting afk, not doing a single thing at the time. Whatever they are using to determine bot activity, it's no longer a result of witnessing activity.. it's trending or something similar.

are you on a normal server or exchange?

 

[Xeus]

If they were just sitting and AFK ..you should send an email and find out the official word and proof.

And, a 7-day suspension is not even a slap on the wrist it's so light. I'd say after 8 years you have done well with only one 7-day suspension. WoW folks can barely make it a year on an account before it's banned.

It was the weekend, so I used the live chat, they said 'use of unapproved 3rd-party software'. They must have been looking for some time though, as all three accounts had multiple level 80 crafters with 40 million status each. I had been /ex'd by my code a couple days before when I got tells on each toon from a Kimbial.. I couldn't find the toon name anywhere on eq2players so I ignored it. Wasn't until after the ban I decided to google the name and found it was the lead GM lol.. should have been more careful, was my own fault. In EQ1 you could run group bots in instances for weeks straight and never hear a word, EQ2 not so much fun heh.

 

[Xeus]

are you on a normal server or exchange?

Normal server... It had to be based on status acquisition and time online.

 

[Sleepy_Steve]

Guess I'm lucky so far... Botted crafting for ages back when the game was newer, and never got anything about that. Bot other parts of the game now, so far so good.

The one time a GM, my guild, and an upset player got in my face was for making an idiot trap on the broker for making the first page of a cheap resource on the broker all 1pp each or so. Back when the most expensive items showed first, and the buy button was right next to the next page button on the broker. LOL, I got a good laugh from it and had to pay the sucker back + commission fees. Still, no 'botting' involved there, but it was so much fun that I'm sure I'd do it again because I enjoy messing with people.

 

[Xeus]

My stuff is all passive, never interfere with anyone, no warping, speed hacks, etc.. that has gotten me by forever. If you play it smart, you should be fine. I got greedy with crafting, because I don't have time to play anymore anyway so it was sort of a 'see how far I can get' sorta thing.

Folks, if you get a tell from 'Kimbial', it will just be a 'hey there!', not a 'this is SOE blah blah how are you today?'. Once she's onto you, lay low for a long time. Lesson learned!

 

[Pygar]

I <3 Kimbial

If you got her attention, its cause it was reffered up by another GM. Which would mean they _really_ thought you were a bot but you didn't exactly match the 'profiling' they're looking.

Unless things have changed Kimbial is the supervisor of the on-location GM staff. And if you're on her shit list, you should stay low.

 

[wired203]

This is why whenever I craft/harvest/fight bot I always use the eq2afkalarm and respond to any tells. Lets off a nice and loud alarm per tell so you know you should get to your PC and check on things.

 

[pz]

kimbial is actually pretty cool in the right circumstances, but anyway. can you be a little more specific than 'greedy with crafting'? you mentioned 40 million status, so are we talking you were doing mad writs or what?

 

[ownagejoo]

Kimbial is a See U Next Tuesday. and yes you are lucky with the suspension. She perma banned one of my accounts across all SOE games just for using her own logic against her.

But once your on her shit list just log out for a few weeks or she will be on you like a pit bull all the time.

Ownagejoo

 

[Valerian]

She perma banned one of my accounts across all SOE games just for using her own logic against her.

typical woman.

 

[Xeus]

Kimbial is a See U Next Tuesday. and yes you are lucky with the suspension. She perma banned one of my accounts across all SOE games just for using her own logic against her.

But once your on her shit list just log out for a few weeks or she will be on you like a pit bull all the time.

Ownagejoo

So is it IP based? What I mean is, can I just get a new account with a game card and different name or will she still know it's me?

 

[insanitywiz]

They can do a search by IP login, but I seriously doubt she's camping your spawn waiting for you to buy a new account.

 

[Valerian]

They can do a search by IP login, but I seriously doubt she's camping your spawn waiting for you to buy a new account.

oh, I don't know, I hear Xeus drops some really uber gear, he might be worth camping for...

 

[Pygar]

Depends on what caught their eye. Sometimes they do monitor IP for new accounts. Chances are you're ok though. Just wouldn't hurt to get a new IP if possible.

Also look at www.simon.com you can make pre-paid visa cards with fake names / addresses to pay your subs with.

 

[bob_the_builder]

This is why whenever I craft/harvest/fight bot I always use the eq2afkalarm and respond to any tells. Lets off a nice and loud alarm per tell so you know you should get to your PC and check on things.

Is there an updated alarm script?
Bob

 

[wired203]

All combined and nice and SVN'd no.

http://www.isxgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1150&highlight=eq2afkalarm

That is the thread for the eq2afkalarm, there are instructions there from supernoob that explain what to edit in the file to make it work correctly. Script works like a charm and is great for when your all around your house doing different things.